I see no reason for pubbers to not even try a pug once... if you like it, great, if not, that's fine keep pubbing. Also pugs are fun but once you get on a clan with people you know/like, it gets even more fun because you can try new strategies and you generally have better teamwork.
<span style='color:yellow'>Clan scene dieing?</span> -> I don't think so. I only see more and more clans as months go by.
<span style='color:yellow'>Clanners and Pubbers immature?</span> -> Coupled with the fact many are teenagers and the "not face to face" effect this will continue to happen. Best response is to ask them to shape up, and treat them with respect even if they don't deserve it.
<span style='color:yellow'>Teamplay is fun?</span> -> NS is a heavy teamplay game, so organized play is always going to be more fun. Most pubs should be combat mode since pubs can't handle teamplay well.
<span style='color:yellow'>NS losing fun?</span> -> All gum and games loose their flavor after chewing a long while. You either have to spit it out, or add sugar to mouth. Translation: find new game type and come back later, or find a new angle to the game. Good clan play revived the taste in my mouth.
<span style='color:yellow'>Forum Posters Immature?</span> -> Most popular forums need a poster ranking system. Each poster can re-edit his rating 1-5 for another person. Only ratings of posters of rank 2.5 or above actually count. It's a ranking system that promotes maturity.
<span style='color:yellow'>You not skilled FPSer?</span> -> Need ranking combat tranie server that rewards best players with a kick. Multi-kicks = ban reward <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> Otherwise the non-skilled FPSer needs to go play Call Of Duty or UT2004 single player until they have skill.
<!--QuoteBegin-titanium+Jun 24 2004, 03:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (titanium @ Jun 24 2004, 03:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+Jun 24 2004, 10:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Jun 24 2004, 10:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> TBH, the way pugging would work best is if everyone is assigned to random teams.. There still is a chance for stacking but at least it would ensure the majority of games would be more even.. (my 2 cents) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> there has been a function which makes the bot pick the teams automatically for almost <b>3 months</b>, thanks <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> We can report smurfing?
<!--QuoteBegin-SaltzBad+Jun 24 2004, 05:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SaltzBad @ Jun 24 2004, 05:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-titanium+Jun 24 2004, 03:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (titanium @ Jun 24 2004, 03:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+Jun 24 2004, 10:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Jun 24 2004, 10:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> TBH, the way pugging would work best is if everyone is assigned to random teams.. There still is a chance for stacking but at least it would ensure the majority of games would be more even.. (my 2 cents) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> there has been a function which makes the bot pick the teams automatically for almost <b>3 months</b>, thanks <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> We can report smurfing? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i made a poll on the nspug forums asking if i should enforce anti smurfing rules and "no" won by far (and most of the people who voted no were not people who smurf regularly)
......... Make a friggin irc channel for a few of the better clanners to idle in and answer questions from pubbers and new clans on how to play better.
Then not only will people not be able to say well no clans are willing to help but also they'll get help <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As far as pugs go they're usually pretty fun. You get a semi clan atmosphere without any pressure. I've commed a few and it admittedly frustrates me when my team can't accomplish fairly simple tasks but as long as I feel that you're TRYING to do what I say then I and other comms will usually be supportive and helpful.
And as far as offering advice on pubs. Don't do it. Ever. I could say HAHAHHAHAHA YOU SUCK NUB HAHAHHAHA every time I killed someone and it wouldn't **** people off half as much as if I tried to give them advice. Seriously.
As far as the clan scene. Lets face it there aren't very many skilled players who've never participated in clan play. I can't think of any off the top of my head atm. This isn't to say they're less gifted but simply that they either don't dedicate enough time or are playing in the wrong atmosphere to gain certain skills.
The plus side is a good pubber joining the clan community can within a month easily become one of the better players in ns atm. If Exigent were to recruit one ok pubber he would probably be a very good player by the end of the season.
Anyway a lot of the no new clans thing is leadership. For a clan to truly succeed it needs to have a captain who can play every day and is capable of learning from scrims and teaching the rest of his clan. He should also be able to assess the flow of the game.
Because of the lack of gamma level players in the game a player with these qualities is very valuable. So every person who is qualified to be a really good leader and start a new team with a shot at becoming a good gamma team is gobbled up by the upper division teams who constantly need new players.
I suspect that if you took a one of the better players in the game who all have some amount of leadership because of the amount of teamwork required in this game he could form a team of all new or omega players and turn it within a month into a top 10 team.
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
edited June 2004
I'm retracting my post, because as one person put it, Pugging is a positive thing in the NS community, and I certainly don't want to give the impression of putting down a positive thing..
If Autoassign is in, then I'm not sure why people would complain??? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But the point of my post was the people involved not #nspug itself (and no I don't mean titanium <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Edit: Wow, didn't intend to make it sound like I had thrashed NSpug either..
hey, before I read another post concerning how mean the clanning community is and how unaccepting and cruel they are to the pub community..
let me point out that many clanners don't enjoy being banned and kicked due to ignorant admins and players from pub servers over cheating accusations which are entirely unwarranted and, in some cases, downright abusive.
can you really blame us for ignoring you sometimes? I find it difficult to pub with voice or text enabled without being plagued by "turn the hacks off" or "you are ruining my life you freaking faggot" and listen to people on ventrilo at the same time.
many people would agree with me that these (can I call it nubcentric without being banned?) pubbing communities and servers often don't have a clue about the reality of very good players because they have shut themselves up in their own little worlds.
there hasn't been a stable and busy place for very skilled players to pub since the hamptons in 2.0, but pugging is a good alternative and I highly recommend it for anyone who wants to try something different. However, clanners still enjoy pubbing and we're not out to get you, unless we're intoxicated you see
You can talk all you want about the intro-social status between pubbers and clanners, and your theories of why the NS clan scene is currently dying right now.
That's all <span style='color:white'>nonsense.</span>.
The truth is that people do not convince others to play games, well, at least 95% of the time, a person himself decides if he wants to play a game or not.
Really, what all drew us to this game? It was because we were interested in the game and we enjoy playing it.
That's it. And a person will want to clan if they truely enjoy the game. It may take some longer to want to clan longer than others, but eventually if you play a game long enough on a pub you will want to join a clan. Although, the NS pub scene is a bit unique, as I have mentioned <a href='http://www.ampednews.com/?page=articles&id=1089' target='_blank'>here</a>.
But honestly, the reasons the game is drying up is because Flayra has been gone for 6 six weeks in the middle of a beta. I hate to rag on the man but someone has to point out the obvious, and since I take bold standpoints on these boards I'm gonna be have to do so once again.
Flayra really does not give the impression he cares about the game anymore. I know he's been moving, and he's really tight financially and has done things like stay with friends over his moving process, but seriously, he was very inactive before he moved and before that, around the first beta 1 release of 3.0 is when I first started to notice his inactivity. He seems far more interested on other projects of his and to me it doesn't seem like he gives half a care if this game goes down the toliet or not. He will just use NS as a showcase game to pimp out to investors as his testamount to his talent, and right now he's tired of his 2 year old project.
I dunno, maybe I should send 30 via constellation, it sure sounds like he could use it.
Also, it's pretty sad after so many freaking betas the game still isn't balanced. I really wish he would just recruit 20 or so active veterans of the NS community that are good at figuring out balance. Keyword mainly being active. Right now they have 40 PT's and can't even scrouge up enough of those 40 PT's to have actual playtests, and they have to use constellation members. How pathetic is that?
But really, the game right now is a plant; pubbers are sunlight and developer interaction is water. Clanners are the seeds that come out of it and make the game grow.
And I think everyone can agree with me on this - NS is drying out.
Forlorn, I can appreciate you putting your two cents in, but Flayra does care about this game more than you could probabaly ever imagine. Maybe he has been inactive for a while, but haven't you ever just taken a vacation for a week, went on a road trip, anything. Well, Flayra needed to move in order to look out for his own future and well being. Maybe it's hard to understand that he was making NS and getting absolutely out of it as far as money goes(yes I know the constellation program exists, but let's face it, that money isn't much as compared to how much time he put into the game).
Maybe I am wrong in saying this, but what gives some of you guys the nerve to give up on something that intrigued you enough to play it for the past couple years. Maybe the man behind the game has been gone for a while, but that isn't reason to get mad at him. He has a life and needs to look out for his future. He is planning on continuing work on NS soon, but with the attitudes that some of you have been showing towards NS, I wouldn't want to continue working on a game that has lost support from most of its players.
I have already said what I think about recent events that have taken place in the clan scene <a href='http://www.ampednews.com/?page=articles&id=1184' target='_blank'>here.</a>
Those of you that continue to support NS through these hard times, your dedication is appreciated, but to those who give up at the slightest signs of distress, you might as well move onto a different game because the NS community doesn't have room for you.
<!--QuoteBegin-raiN-+Jun 24 2004, 10:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (raiN- @ Jun 24 2004, 10:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Those of you that continue to support NS through these hard times, your dedication is appreciated, but to those who give up at the slightest signs of distress, you might as well move onto a different game because the NS community doesn't have room for you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> and to those who <b>are</b> giving up, please, hurry up and get it over with. give up and get lost -- stop raining on our parade. we don't want to hear your complaining. i've made it policy in findnsscrim and nspug now that "omg ns is dying" will get you a ban. give it a break.
<!--QuoteBegin-raiN-+Jun 24 2004, 10:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (raiN- @ Jun 24 2004, 10:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Forlorn, I can appreciate you putting your two cents in, but Flayra does care about this game more than you could probabaly ever imagine. Maybe he has been inactive for a while, but haven't you ever just taken a vacation for a week, went on a road trip, anything. Well, Flayra needed to move in order to look out for his own future and well being. Maybe it's hard to understand that he was making NS and getting absolutely out of it as far as money goes(yes I know the constellation program exists, but let's face it, that money isn't much as compared to how much time he put into the game).
Maybe I am wrong in saying this, but what gives some of you guys the nerve to give up on something that intrigued you enough to play it for the past couple years. Maybe the man behind the game has been gone for a while, but that isn't reason to get mad at him. He has a life and needs to look out for his future. He is planning on continuing work on NS soon, but with the attitudes that some of you have been showing towards NS, I wouldn't want to continue working on a game that has lost support from most of its players.
I have already said what I think about recent events that have taken place in the clan scene <a href='http://www.ampednews.com/?page=articles&id=1184' target='_blank'>here.</a>
Those of you that continue to support NS through these hard times, your dedication is appreciated, but to those who give up at the slightest signs of distress, you might as well move onto a different game because the NS community doesn't have room for you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's not that he doesn't care, it's that he doesn't care enough to put in the effort a game like NS requires
What exactly does it require... devoting his life to it? not worrying about his future? working on ns without a salary? what?
So what if he took a break for a month. LIVE WITH IT. He is planning on stepping up the efforts to finalize NS as soon as he gets his business situated. Give the man a break because you don't know or understand the whole story.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jun 24 2004, 10:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jun 24 2004, 10:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually the inactivity is almost 6 months old<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah how can we stand for such a thing i think you should take this game back and demand a full refund
<!--QuoteBegin-Zephor+Jun 24 2004, 04:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zephor @ Jun 24 2004, 04:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Jun 24 2004, 10:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Jun 24 2004, 10:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ----stufff----- <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> oh yes, that <b> NEVER </b> happens in dod or cs. :rolleyes: <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You lost me there... I mean honestly, what are you talking about? I wasn't talking about DoD or CS... So I'm left going HUH?
<!--QuoteBegin-titanium+Jun 24 2004, 11:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (titanium @ Jun 24 2004, 11:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jun 24 2004, 10:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jun 24 2004, 10:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually the inactivity is almost 6 months old<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah how can we stand for such a thing i think you should take this game back and demand a full refund
oh, wait <img src='http://www.nspug.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This isn't about whether or not his inactivity is right or not, it's about why NS's clan scene is dying.
Forlorn, for how much time you have spent writing forum posts here over the past year+, you sure are negative about the future of this game... I mean the game can't mean too much to you if you have 5000+ posts here... usually a man dedicates his time to something he loves and enjoys. I don't think I need to really say anything else here.
If i may add my 2 cents, i'd like to say that this is beginning to degenerate into a flamewar... It's not there yet, but it could be.
Just thought you guys might want to take a second and think before you get really personal with your insults and opinions.
As far as the topic goes, I'm pretty much a pub player. I'd like to eventually get in to clans and such, but since i'm on crappy dialup now, that's largely impossible (If for no other reason than i have to mute all my teammebers just so i can seem more than 4 frames in a fight.) From what i've seen, clan players are different from pub players by only one simple fact. They're in a clan.
That's a pretty "duh.." point to make, but it has some unseen effects. Basically it means that clan players are easily identifiable as different, and we can therefore label them as "nice" or "mean" much easier than other random players.
Now here's the trick... Often the only differences between between clan players and pub players is how good they are at NS, and that one group has a tag on. What's NOT different is the individual players MATURITY LEVEL. How many of you have had many games with just some random player, who's being a total dickwad? I've had many games with random people attacking rt's, and the like. The catch is that these random pub players who are being stupid, aren't identifiable with a particular group. They're just pub players. A clan player who attacks rt's and such, IS identifiable, first with his clan and second with ALL clan players.
It's a problem of perception, people. The problem is that we're ALL human, clanned or not. It's just that clanned people can be labeled as jerks far easier than everyone else, yourself included.
yer but... what makes you think he owes you any thing?
(this isn't directed at Forlorn personally... just people in general <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
No one has been asked to play NS No one has had to buy NS No one was given an agreement by the Dev team for long-term updates and support for the game...
So what makes people think they are owed any thing? Lord knows how many hours have gone into the development of NS... this started as a one man project - he concepts, design, layout, ideas, aliens, marines, guns, chambers, structures, tech, themes.... all of it was brought about by one man. Yes the load was shared, and the Dev's have done a fantastic job...
I admit - I'm desperate for a new version... v4a is starting to bug me in far too many ways. But, I just look back on the time (a little under 2 years) that I've been playing NS... considering I paid ?0.00 for this, it's not done too badly in my eyes. (yes I'm a constie, but that was voluntary)
Flayra, Charlie, Mr Cleveland, what ever you want to call him - is thinking of his future - he is in the progress of setting up a business. Yes he is going to use NS as a 'showcase' - who the hell wouldn't? This is one damn fine piece of work - sure it's not finished yet, but then, who here has finished a project in the 2 weeks they moved house? </preach>
<!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Jun 24 2004, 08:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Jun 24 2004, 08:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zephor+Jun 24 2004, 04:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zephor @ Jun 24 2004, 04:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Jun 24 2004, 10:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Jun 24 2004, 10:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ----stufff----- <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> oh yes, that <b> NEVER </b> happens in dod or cs. :rolleyes: <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You lost me there... I mean honestly, what are you talking about? I wasn't talking about DoD or CS... So I'm left going HUH? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Was referring to this statement
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Imagine if a famous basketball or football player went down to the local park and found some kids messing around with a ball. Would he just jump in, completely own them, and then laugh about it and call them nubs? Sounds ridiculous, right? And yet this exact thing is prevalent in the NS world. Why? If you were those kids, would you ever say "Wow, I want to be just like that guy!" and then go buy his brand of running shoes? I doubt it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I'm trying to say is that people do not join a competative community because people were 'mean' or were '****' to them. I was merely pointing out sarcastically that this happens all day long in dod and ns, probably more than ns, and yet they have 4 leagues and a clanning community almost 3 times the size of the ns community.
Also, about your last statement. Clans that whine because they can't win really shouldn't be playing in a competative league. This is called competition. There has to be losers to be winners. If you can't handle that hard reality then you should grow up a little bit and experience the real world before you join the leagues. There are PLENTY and I do mean PLENTY of clans who tough it out everyday like Animosity did in the 2.01 days and Sphere and TTG are doing now. They're clans that work hard with less than super star players and try to get better.(and they have)
<!--QuoteBegin-Zephor+Jun 25 2004, 04:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zephor @ Jun 25 2004, 04:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also, about your last statement. Clans that whine because they can't win really shouldn't be playing in a competative league. This is called competition. There has to be losers to be winners. If you can't handle that hard reality then you should grow up a little bit and experience the real world before you join the leagues. There are PLENTY and I do mean PLENTY of clans who tough it out everyday like Animosity did in the 2.01 days and Sphere and TTG are doing now. They're clans that work hard with less than super star players and try to get better.(and they have) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Gawsh, I remember when ^? and GoM used to be like, "Yes, animosity is scrimming, someone who isn't envy or dn`!" Those were rough days, but the arguement was the same back then. You only have to go back to last season and the one before that to find threads just like this one where people tried to attribute a hundred different reasons to why NS's clan scene was "dying". The same reasons too; mean old established teams bully new guys, mean clanners in general bully pubbers who should be making new clans, Flayra is a lazy oaf and obviously if he just gave the project over to an elite group of teenagers it'd be finished this weekend. The clan scene isn't dying, we've just got a difficult game to learn, with a small player base, on a *very* old engine. For the number of players ns has regularly we seem to have about the right number of clans.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jun 25 2004, 03:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jun 25 2004, 03:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually the inactivity is almost 6 months old <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Interesting thing to say when the last beta build is barely 2 months old...
Admins note: This thread has bordered on a flamewar a few times too often, and since personal attacks and factual arguments are often almost impossible to differentiate, it was difficult to take moderative actions. I'm going to keep an eye on the thread and will lock it if it goes out of hand.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Jun 25 2004, 01:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Jun 25 2004, 01:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jun 25 2004, 03:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jun 25 2004, 03:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually the inactivity is almost 6 months old <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Interesting thing to say when the last beta build is barely 2 months old...
Admins note: This thread has bordered on a flamewar a few times too often, and since personal attacks and factual arguments are often almost impossible to differentiate, it was difficult to take moderative actions. I'm going to keep an eye on the thread and will lock it if it goes out of hand. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> More like <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>when</span> it goes out of hand <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Jun 25 2004, 07:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Jun 25 2004, 07:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jun 25 2004, 03:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jun 25 2004, 03:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually the inactivity is almost 6 months old <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Interesting thing to say when the last beta build is barely 2 months old... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But do you remember what happened when the last beta was released?
- Flayra had not been keeping up with, well, almost anything - Spumbra had almost been put in - Almost 99% of the current PT's (This would mean vets AND pts) at the time, (rather, former PT's untill it went beta) were completely ignored
Seriously, when beta 4 came out it was in shambles, and which is why beta 4a needed to be released... and after that, I thought, hey, maybe the inactivity will end... which had been going on for a long time before that, the time between beta 3 and beta 4 was what? 2 and a half months old?
But then after beta 4a was released I realized the inactivity would continue, and the sad reality was not that beta 4a didn't mark the ending of one session of inactivity from another period of inactivity, but rather it marked a momentary laspe in the same inactivity that has been with Flayra for quite some time now.
Hence the 6 month inactivity comment.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Forlorn, for how much time you have spent writing forum posts here over the past year+, you sure are negative about the future of this game... I mean the game can't mean too much to you if you have 5000+ posts here... usually a man dedicates his time to something he loves and enjoys. I don't think I need to really say anything else here.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is nothing to say. I'm a realist by nature, and I tell things how they are. While it is true that I have spent more time on this game than most people have, the fact that I have been able to accumliate so much time on these boards is because I have had the chance to, more than I have absolutely desired to. Even though, I do like reading forum boards by nature, I have always read forums for people's oppinions for over 3 years now.
But really, nothing I have said is even negative nor positive in nature. Again, all I'm doing is telling the truth. You people are the ones who are being negative, because you see the facts and then become depressed and feel like something negative is happening, and then attempt to argue with me as if that would change the facts.
Please. Me being negative would me proclaiming how the game is gonna die by the end of the summer, or telling you guys some of the things I've heard from other less than optimisitic people in this community.
But really. The topic is about why the NS clan scene is dying. And I'll tell you why:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But really, the game right now is a plant; pubbers are sunlight and developer interaction is water. Clanners are the seeds that come out of it and make the game grow.
And I think everyone can agree with me on this - NS is drying out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not here to pound on the obvious (pubber / calnner releations), or to exclaim I have the answer - I'm merely posting in this thread because some people seem to be confused as to why the NS clan scene is dying, and so I'd like to clairify the problems.
Nemesis, no patch for over 2 months is one thing. Almost no dev presence in these forums <i>at all</i> for most of that period of time is another entirely. Would it be so hard for the devs to make maybe a post a day to comment on something(unchained chambers still has received no dev acknowledgement despite the huge threads) or just let us know what's going on? Nobody's asking Flayra to spend all day responding to every little suggestion people make, but he should at least stop by once in a while. His last post was May 30th if I'm not mistaken; he could have died in a car crash the next day and we still would have no idea. The bug tracker is the only thing even close to a progress update that we have. If Flayra is taking a break or something then that's his prerogative but I think the community deserves to hear about it.
I think that there would not be such a big problem if clans weren't so selective over just ns skills, i think you guys should recruit at ability to learn and non-assholeness because you could teach these people and that is one less noob in the world.
Because gameplay != realism, that's why. Because if you let them get that, you deserve to lose. Because NS isn't balanced for 12v12. Because all you need to do to break even is be better than the other guy.
Now you all can go back and forth on why clans are dying and how they need pubs (and vice versa) and make metaphors involving plants all day if you want. But coming from someone who probably represents the average NS gamer, in that I don't have enough time to practice my "skills" to compete with your average clanner, the game is horribly flawed. So forgive me for not caring about your plight, clanners, but maybe your demise might make for a better game for <i>me.</i>
To console you, here's a picture of the <a href='http://www.therainiervalley.com/queen_anne_news.html' target='_blank'>world's smallest violin.</a>
Comments
[edit]
I'm a nub, and didn't make it a hyperlink >_<
[/edit]
<span style='color:yellow'>Clanners and Pubbers immature?</span> -> Coupled with the fact many are teenagers and the "not face to face" effect this will continue to happen. Best response is to ask them to shape up, and treat them with respect even if they don't deserve it.
<span style='color:yellow'>Teamplay is fun?</span> -> NS is a heavy teamplay game, so organized play is always going to be more fun. Most pubs should be combat mode since pubs can't handle teamplay well.
<span style='color:yellow'>NS losing fun?</span> -> All gum and games loose their flavor after chewing a long while. You either have to spit it out, or add sugar to mouth. Translation: find new game type and come back later, or find a new angle to the game. Good clan play revived the taste in my mouth.
<span style='color:yellow'>Forum Posters Immature?</span> -> Most popular forums need a poster ranking system. Each poster can re-edit his rating 1-5 for another person. Only ratings of posters of rank 2.5 or above actually count. It's a ranking system that promotes maturity.
<span style='color:yellow'>You not skilled FPSer?</span> -> Need ranking combat tranie server that rewards best players with a kick. Multi-kicks = ban reward <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> Otherwise the non-skilled FPSer needs to go play Call Of Duty or UT2004 single player until they have skill.
there has been a function which makes the bot pick the teams automatically for almost <b>3 months</b>, thanks <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
We can report smurfing?
oh yes, that <b> NEVER </b> happens in dod or cs. :rolleyes:
there has been a function which makes the bot pick the teams automatically for almost <b>3 months</b>, thanks <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We can report smurfing? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i made a poll on the nspug forums asking if i should enforce anti smurfing rules and "no" won by far (and most of the people who voted no were not people who smurf regularly)
Then not only will people not be able to say well no clans are willing to help but also they'll get help <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As far as pugs go they're usually pretty fun. You get a semi clan atmosphere without any pressure. I've commed a few and it admittedly frustrates me when my team can't accomplish fairly simple tasks but as long as I feel that you're TRYING to do what I say then I and other comms will usually be supportive and helpful.
And as far as offering advice on pubs. Don't do it. Ever. I could say HAHAHHAHAHA YOU SUCK NUB HAHAHHAHA every time I killed someone and it wouldn't **** people off half as much as if I tried to give them advice. Seriously.
As far as the clan scene. Lets face it there aren't very many skilled players who've never participated in clan play. I can't think of any off the top of my head atm. This isn't to say they're less gifted but simply that they either don't dedicate enough time or are playing in the wrong atmosphere to gain certain skills.
The plus side is a good pubber joining the clan community can within a month easily become one of the better players in ns atm. If Exigent were to recruit one ok pubber he would probably be a very good player by the end of the season.
Anyway a lot of the no new clans thing is leadership. For a clan to truly succeed it needs to have a captain who can play every day and is capable of learning from scrims and teaching the rest of his clan. He should also be able to assess the flow of the game.
Because of the lack of gamma level players in the game a player with these qualities is very valuable. So every person who is qualified to be a really good leader and start a new team with a shot at becoming a good gamma team is gobbled up by the upper division teams who constantly need new players.
I suspect that if you took a one of the better players in the game who all have some amount of leadership because of the amount of teamwork required in this game he could form a team of all new or omega players and turn it within a month into a top 10 team.
If Autoassign is in, then I'm not sure why people would complain??? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But the point of my post was the people involved not #nspug itself (and no I don't mean titanium <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Edit: Wow, didn't intend to make it sound like I had thrashed NSpug either..
let me point out that many clanners don't enjoy being banned and kicked due to ignorant admins and players from pub servers over cheating accusations which are entirely unwarranted and, in some cases, downright abusive.
can you really blame us for ignoring you sometimes? I find it difficult to pub with voice or text enabled without being plagued by "turn the hacks off" or "you are ruining my life you freaking faggot" and listen to people on ventrilo at the same time.
many people would agree with me that these (can I call it nubcentric without being banned?) pubbing communities and servers often don't have a clue about the reality of very good players because they have shut themselves up in their own little worlds.
there hasn't been a stable and busy place for very skilled players to pub since the hamptons in 2.0, but pugging is a good alternative and I highly recommend it for anyone who wants to try something different. However, clanners still enjoy pubbing and we're not out to get you, unless we're intoxicated you see
don't hate the clanners hate meb ok
#nspug
You can talk all you want about the intro-social status between pubbers and clanners, and your theories of why the NS clan scene is currently dying right now.
That's all <span style='color:white'>nonsense.</span>.
The truth is that people do not convince others to play games, well, at least 95% of the time, a person himself decides if he wants to play a game or not.
Really, what all drew us to this game? It was because we were interested in the game and we enjoy playing it.
That's it. And a person will want to clan if they truely enjoy the game. It may take some longer to want to clan longer than others, but eventually if you play a game long enough on a pub you will want to join a clan. Although, the NS pub scene is a bit unique, as I have mentioned <a href='http://www.ampednews.com/?page=articles&id=1089' target='_blank'>here</a>.
But honestly, the reasons the game is drying up is because Flayra has been gone for 6 six weeks in the middle of a beta. I hate to rag on the man but someone has to point out the obvious, and since I take bold standpoints on these boards I'm gonna be have to do so once again.
Flayra really does not give the impression he cares about the game anymore. I know he's been moving, and he's really tight financially and has done things like stay with friends over his moving process, but seriously, he was very inactive before he moved and before that, around the first beta 1 release of 3.0 is when I first started to notice his inactivity. He seems far more interested on other projects of his and to me it doesn't seem like he gives half a care if this game goes down the toliet or not. He will just use NS as a showcase game to pimp out to investors as his testamount to his talent, and right now he's tired of his 2 year old project.
I dunno, maybe I should send 30 via constellation, it sure sounds like he could use it.
Also, it's pretty sad after so many freaking betas the game still isn't balanced. I really wish he would just recruit 20 or so active veterans of the NS community that are good at figuring out balance. Keyword mainly being active. Right now they have 40 PT's and can't even scrouge up enough of those 40 PT's to have actual playtests, and they have to use constellation members. How pathetic is that?
But really, the game right now is a plant; pubbers are sunlight and developer interaction is water. Clanners are the seeds that come out of it and make the game grow.
And I think everyone can agree with me on this - NS is drying out.
Maybe I am wrong in saying this, but what gives some of you guys the nerve to give up on something that intrigued you enough to play it for the past couple years. Maybe the man behind the game has been gone for a while, but that isn't reason to get mad at him. He has a life and needs to look out for his future. He is planning on continuing work on NS soon, but with the attitudes that some of you have been showing towards NS, I wouldn't want to continue working on a game that has lost support from most of its players.
I have already said what I think about recent events that have taken place in the clan scene <a href='http://www.ampednews.com/?page=articles&id=1184' target='_blank'>here.</a>
Those of you that continue to support NS through these hard times, your dedication is appreciated, but to those who give up at the slightest signs of distress, you might as well move onto a different game because the NS community doesn't have room for you.
and to those who <b>are</b> giving up, please, hurry up and get it over with. give up and get lost -- stop raining on our parade. we don't want to hear your complaining. i've made it policy in findnsscrim and nspug now that "omg ns is dying" will get you a ban. give it a break.
Maybe I am wrong in saying this, but what gives some of you guys the nerve to give up on something that intrigued you enough to play it for the past couple years. Maybe the man behind the game has been gone for a while, but that isn't reason to get mad at him. He has a life and needs to look out for his future. He is planning on continuing work on NS soon, but with the attitudes that some of you have been showing towards NS, I wouldn't want to continue working on a game that has lost support from most of its players.
I have already said what I think about recent events that have taken place in the clan scene <a href='http://www.ampednews.com/?page=articles&id=1184' target='_blank'>here.</a>
Those of you that continue to support NS through these hard times, your dedication is appreciated, but to those who give up at the slightest signs of distress, you might as well move onto a different game because the NS community doesn't have room for you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not that he doesn't care, it's that he doesn't care enough to put in the effort a game like NS requires
So what if he took a break for a month. LIVE WITH IT. He is planning on stepping up the efforts to finalize NS as soon as he gets his business situated. Give the man a break because you don't know or understand the whole story.
yeah how can we stand for such a thing i think you should take this game back and demand a full refund
oh, wait <img src='http://www.nspug.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
oh yes, that <b> NEVER </b> happens in dod or cs. :rolleyes: <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You lost me there... I mean honestly, what are you talking about? I wasn't talking about DoD or CS... So I'm left going HUH?
yeah how can we stand for such a thing i think you should take this game back and demand a full refund
oh, wait <img src='http://www.nspug.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This isn't about whether or not his inactivity is right or not, it's about why NS's clan scene is dying.
People want reasons, but I give answers.
Just thought you guys might want to take a second and think before you get really personal with your insults and opinions.
As far as the topic goes, I'm pretty much a pub player. I'd like to eventually get in to clans and such, but since i'm on crappy dialup now, that's largely impossible (If for no other reason than i have to mute all my teammebers just so i can seem more than 4 frames in a fight.) From what i've seen, clan players are different from pub players by only one simple fact. They're in a clan.
That's a pretty "duh.." point to make, but it has some unseen effects. Basically it means that clan players are easily identifiable as different, and we can therefore label them as "nice" or "mean" much easier than other random players.
Now here's the trick... Often the only differences between between clan players and pub players is how good they are at NS, and that one group has a tag on. What's NOT different is the individual players MATURITY LEVEL. How many of you have had many games with just some random player, who's being a total dickwad? I've had many games with random people attacking rt's, and the like. The catch is that these random pub players who are being stupid, aren't identifiable with a particular group. They're just pub players. A clan player who attacks rt's and such, IS identifiable, first with his clan and second with ALL clan players.
It's a problem of perception, people. The problem is that we're ALL human, clanned or not. It's just that clanned people can be labeled as jerks far easier than everyone else, yourself included.
(this isn't directed at Forlorn personally... just people in general <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
No one has been asked to play NS
No one has had to buy NS
No one was given an agreement by the Dev team for long-term updates and support for the game...
So what makes people think they are owed any thing? Lord knows how many hours have gone into the development of NS... this started as a one man project - he concepts, design, layout, ideas, aliens, marines, guns, chambers, structures, tech, themes.... all of it was brought about by one man. Yes the load was shared, and the Dev's have done a fantastic job...
I admit - I'm desperate for a new version... v4a is starting to bug me in far too many ways. But, I just look back on the time (a little under 2 years) that I've been playing NS... considering I paid ?0.00 for this, it's not done too badly in my eyes. (yes I'm a constie, but that was voluntary)
Flayra, Charlie, Mr Cleveland, what ever you want to call him - is thinking of his future - he is in the progress of setting up a business. Yes he is going to use NS as a 'showcase' - who the hell wouldn't? This is one damn fine piece of work - sure it's not finished yet, but then, who here has finished a project in the 2 weeks they moved house?
</preach>
- Edit - woo 600 posts
oh yes, that <b> NEVER </b> happens in dod or cs. :rolleyes: <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You lost me there... I mean honestly, what are you talking about? I wasn't talking about DoD or CS... So I'm left going HUH? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Was referring to this statement
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Imagine if a famous basketball or football player went down to the local park and found some kids messing around with a ball. Would he just jump in, completely own them, and then laugh about it and call them nubs? Sounds ridiculous, right? And yet this exact thing is prevalent in the NS world. Why? If you were those kids, would you ever say "Wow, I want to be just like that guy!" and then go buy his brand of running shoes? I doubt it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I'm trying to say is that people do not join a competative community because people were 'mean' or were '****' to them. I was merely pointing out sarcastically that this happens all day long in dod and ns, probably more than ns, and yet they have 4 leagues and a clanning community almost 3 times the size of the ns community.
Also, about your last statement. Clans that whine because they can't win really shouldn't be playing in a competative league. This is called competition. There has to be losers to be winners. If you can't handle that hard reality then you should grow up a little bit and experience the real world before you join the leagues. There are PLENTY and I do mean PLENTY of clans who tough it out everyday like Animosity did in the 2.01 days and Sphere and TTG are doing now. They're clans that work hard with less than super star players and try to get better.(and they have)
Gawsh, I remember when ^? and GoM used to be like, "Yes, animosity is scrimming, someone who isn't envy or dn`!" Those were rough days, but the arguement was the same back then. You only have to go back to last season and the one before that to find threads just like this one where people tried to attribute a hundred different reasons to why NS's clan scene was "dying". The same reasons too; mean old established teams bully new guys, mean clanners in general bully pubbers who should be making new clans, Flayra is a lazy oaf and obviously if he just gave the project over to an elite group of teenagers it'd be finished this weekend. The clan scene isn't dying, we've just got a difficult game to learn, with a small player base, on a *very* old engine. For the number of players ns has regularly we seem to have about the right number of clans.
Interesting thing to say when the last beta build is barely 2 months old...
Admins note: This thread has bordered on a flamewar a few times too often, and since personal attacks and factual arguments are often almost impossible to differentiate, it was difficult to take moderative actions. I'm going to keep an eye on the thread and will lock it if it goes out of hand.
Interesting thing to say when the last beta build is barely 2 months old...
Admins note: This thread has bordered on a flamewar a few times too often, and since personal attacks and factual arguments are often almost impossible to differentiate, it was difficult to take moderative actions. I'm going to keep an eye on the thread and will lock it if it goes out of hand. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
More like <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>when</span> it goes out of hand <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Interesting thing to say when the last beta build is barely 2 months old... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
But do you remember what happened when the last beta was released?
- Flayra had not been keeping up with, well, almost anything
- Spumbra had almost been put in
- Almost 99% of the current PT's (This would mean vets AND pts) at the time, (rather, former PT's untill it went beta) were completely ignored
Seriously, when beta 4 came out it was in shambles, and which is why beta 4a needed to be released... and after that, I thought, hey, maybe the inactivity will end... which had been going on for a long time before that, the time between beta 3 and beta 4 was what? 2 and a half months old?
But then after beta 4a was released I realized the inactivity would continue, and the sad reality was not that beta 4a didn't mark the ending of one session of inactivity from another period of inactivity, but rather it marked a momentary laspe in the same inactivity that has been with Flayra for quite some time now.
Hence the 6 month inactivity comment.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Forlorn, for how much time you have spent writing forum posts here over the past year+, you sure are negative about the future of this game... I mean the game can't mean too much to you if you have 5000+ posts here... usually a man dedicates his time to something he loves and enjoys. I don't think I need to really say anything else here.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is nothing to say. I'm a realist by nature, and I tell things how they are. While it is true that I have spent more time on this game than most people have, the fact that I have been able to accumliate so much time on these boards is because I have had the chance to, more than I have absolutely desired to. Even though, I do like reading forum boards by nature, I have always read forums for people's oppinions for over 3 years now.
But really, nothing I have said is even negative nor positive in nature. Again, all I'm doing is telling the truth. You people are the ones who are being negative, because you see the facts and then become depressed and feel like something negative is happening, and then attempt to argue with me as if that would change the facts.
Please. Me being negative would me proclaiming how the game is gonna die by the end of the summer, or telling you guys some of the things I've heard from other less than optimisitic people in this community.
But really. The topic is about why the NS clan scene is dying. And I'll tell you why:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But really, the game right now is a plant; pubbers are sunlight and developer interaction is water. Clanners are the seeds that come out of it and make the game grow.
And I think everyone can agree with me on this - NS is drying out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not here to pound on the obvious (pubber / calnner releations), or to exclaim I have the answer - I'm merely posting in this thread because some people seem to be confused as to why the NS clan scene is dying, and so I'd like to clairify the problems.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Why?
Because gameplay != realism, that's why.
Because if you let them get that, you deserve to lose.
Because NS isn't balanced for 12v12.
Because all you need to do to break even is be better than the other guy.
Now you all can go back and forth on why clans are dying and how they need pubs (and vice versa) and make metaphors involving plants all day if you want. But coming from someone who probably represents the average NS gamer, in that I don't have enough time to practice my "skills" to compete with your average clanner, the game is horribly flawed. So forgive me for not caring about your plight, clanners, but maybe your demise might make for a better game for <i>me.</i>
To console you, here's a picture of the <a href='http://www.therainiervalley.com/queen_anne_news.html' target='_blank'>world's smallest violin.</a>