<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Jun 25 2004, 06:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Jun 25 2004, 06:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Jun 25 2004, 03:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jun 25 2004, 03:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually the inactivity is almost 6 months old <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Interesting thing to say when the last beta build is barely 2 months old...
Admins note: This thread has bordered on a flamewar a few times too often, and since personal attacks and factual arguments are often almost impossible to differentiate, it was difficult to take moderative actions. I'm going to keep an eye on the thread and will lock it if it goes out of hand. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That would be a bad thing, as the NS competitive scene could use some people reading this thread. I've already found a few new people pugging, probably because they read this thread here. Also, clan Infinite Reverence has died. Another blow to the community.
Ok i didn´t read the hole thread but i can only laugh Only because in CAL are 20 clans and 2 american Clans are dying you say the NS Clan scene is dying ?
Heh wake up there is a world outside the USA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For Example here in Europe we have more than 50 Clans (i dont counted them but i think there are much more in Europe)
For example my Clan plays about 5 Scrims per week against different Clans. Yes you heard right it is not always the same Clan <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And there are 3 other Continents that also have clans. And CAL is not the non plus ultra. There is for example Clanbase where most of the European Clans are signed up.
Do you know that this selfishness is the reason why many dont like Americans anymore. I say it again there is a hole World out there not only the USA so stop whining.
<!--QuoteBegin-Raistlin666+Jun 25 2004, 02:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Raistlin666 @ Jun 25 2004, 02:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok i didn´t read the hole thread but i can only laugh Only because in CAL are 20 clans and 2 american Clans are dying you say the NS Clan scene is dying ?
Heh wake up there is a world outside the USA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For Example here in Europe we have more than 50 Clans (i dont counted them but i think there are much more in Europe)
And there are 3 other Continents that also have clans. And CAL is not the non plus ultra. There is for example Clanbase where most of the European Clans are signed up.
Do you know that this selfishness is the reason why many dont like Americans anymore. I say it again there is a hole World out there not only the USA so stop whining. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't care for your crap justification of hating Americans. The point is, is that the CAL clanbase gets smaller each day, or so it seems. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Heh you say that the NS Competitive Scene needs help. This means that thats is wrong with all NS Clans all over the World not only the US Scene. So if you tthink that the NS Scene has a problem than post it correct and dont lumb things together.
And when did i said that i hate Americans ? I only said that the some people don´t like Americans because of this.
And to you e.Nadagast. Read the first Post. It reads like all Clans over the World have a Problem but it isn´t so. So it was right what i said. If Jmmsbnd007 had said that the NS Scene have problems then i wouldn´t have post this.
I only dont like when you talk about something like USA is the Center of the World and with the first post it looked like this.
I´am feel very sorry for the NS Clan scene but the Post of Jmmsbnd007 in this form wasn´t correct.
Hobojoe i got some news for you. This Forum is an international Forum. So when you post something like this you could be a little more specific <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I?am no Gypsy who can can read Minds <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> If one person thats not life in the USA reads this he can easily think that this is a problem to the whole NS Clan scene not only to the US Clan Scene.
And i admit that my first post was a bit hard. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
To what end are these "new clans" supposed to be organizing? CAL? OGL? I just don't see the motivation. Every combat I play I see scripting and cheating (within an hour). Why would I want to play where there are real ego's involved, where people have a vested interest to cheat?
<!--QuoteBegin-Raistlin666+Jun 25 2004, 03:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Raistlin666 @ Jun 25 2004, 03:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Heh you say that the NS Competitive Scene needs help. This means that thats is wrong with all NS Clans all over the World not only the US Scene. So if you tthink that the NS Scene has a problem than post it correct and dont lumb things together.
And when did i said that i hate Americans ? I only said that the some people don´t like Americans because of this.
And to you e.Nadagast. Read the first Post. It reads like all Clans over the World have a Problem but it isn´t so. So it was right what i said. If Jmmsbnd007 had said that the NS Scene have problems then i wouldn´t have post this.
I only dont like when you talk about something like USA is the Center of the World and with the first post it looked like this.
I´am feel very sorry for the NS Clan scene but the Post of Jmmsbnd007 in this form wasn´t correct. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Did I ever say the US was the center of the world? Quit it with the anti-Americanism and the thread sidetrack. The NS competetive community does need help, and if you don't think so, then surely you can agree that it could use many more clans.
Jmmsbnd007 stop reading my first post over and over again and read the others.
1. I said that this post was a little bit hard 2. This Forum is an international Forum. And when you think that Posting the NS Competitive Scene have problems is implying that you only mean the US NS Community than you are indeed selfish.
But now stop and accept that you and i made a mistake and lets think again what we can do to help the US Clan Scene.
But if you like would could also flame forever <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Raistlin666+Jun 25 2004, 04:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Raistlin666 @ Jun 25 2004, 04:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Jmmsbnd007 stop reading my first post over and over again and read the others.
1. I said that this post was a little bit hard 2. This Forum is an international Forum. And when you think that Posting the NS Competitive Scene have problems is implying that you only mean the US NS Community than you are indeed selfish.
But now stop and accept that you and i made a mistake and lets think again what we can do to help the US Clan Scene.
But if you like would could also flame forever <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ...whatever. The point is, is that 30 clans in a mod of hundreds of thousands is pretty rediculous IMO. Just trying to help.
<ironic> Heh the problem is solved In your first Post you said there are about 20 Clans but now we are already at 30 <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> </ironic>
Maybe if the ATI Tournement would be held with cool Prices we would see more Clans.
<!--QuoteBegin-Raistlin666+Jun 25 2004, 10:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Raistlin666 @ Jun 25 2004, 10:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <ironic> Heh the problem is solved In your first Post you said there are about 20 Clans but now we are already at 30 <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> </ironic>
Maybe if the ATI Tournement would be held with cool Prices we would see more Clans. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yap im sure they are eager to give ati cards for a ONLINE tournament
(Bearing in mind Nemesis has said this thread is on the verge of being locked for flaming, if you want it to stay open, keep the arguments off the boards)
- If tournament prizes are the only that will inspire people to join a clan then some thing is VERY wrong - people should want to because they may find it more enjoyable being part of a close-nit team that works well and being able to play in a more professional atmosphere
-- a big juicy graphics card at the end shouldn't be the incentive
Dont just see everything from the bad side shanks. Maybe those new Clans would see in the progress of the Tournement what fun it is to play in a Clan and some of them would stay.
But i admit it is easier to see everything from the bad side <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Raistlin666+Jun 25 2004, 04:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Raistlin666 @ Jun 25 2004, 04:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <ironic> Heh the problem is solved In your first Post you said there are about 20 Clans but now we are already at 30 <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> </ironic>
Maybe if the ATI Tournement would be held with cool Prices we would see more Clans. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hmm... miscounted on the first post I guess.
Actually it sometimes seems like the Euro NS scene has the same problems, regardless of what Raistlin says <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> we had alot of clans fold a few months back and imo the scene never quite recovered.
Things are ok for now but already clans are beggining to fold again. I don't know whether it's just the ebb and flow of clan NS or something worse, but it is worrying and i hope you guys keep the US side going strong.
@ Anderval As i already said my Clan (FbH you probably know us <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) have about 5 Scrims per week against different Clans.
I think that things only slows down a bit because everybody is awaiting the new Version like in the Days of 1.04 everbody was waiting for 2.0 (I only say BUS <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> . Everybody wants to know what it is)
@ To all other
Stop searching arguments against a tournement. Use your energy to find more Ideas to keep the Scene alive. Making everything look bad don?t bring us any further !
Seeing everything from the bad side is actually an growing Trend in these Forums (This is one of the Reasons why the Clan scene have Problems because many are so pessimistic now)
Some examples: Balancing is bad Lerk without Spike is bad and so on
Don?t see everything so pessimistic.
P.S. In my previous Posts i?ve forgotten to say that i indeed hate some Americans. These are Bush / Cheney / Rumsfeld / Rice <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Control your hate raistlin. Hating our president has nothing to do with ns. Why hate him anyways, he is ours not yours. Go elect your own guy to hate and mind your own business.
I hope you meant this ironic Icebaron And now lets stick back on Topic <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Raistlin666+Jun 25 2004, 03:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Raistlin666 @ Jun 25 2004, 03:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok i didn´t read the hole thread but i can only laugh Only because in CAL are 20 clans and 2 american Clans are dying you say the NS Clan scene is dying ?
Heh wake up there is a world outside the USA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For Example here in Europe we have more than 50 Clans (i dont counted them but i think there are much more in Europe)
For example my Clan plays about 5 Scrims per week against different Clans. Yes you heard right it is not always the same Clan <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And there are 3 other Continents that also have clans. And CAL is not the non plus ultra. There is for example Clanbase where most of the European Clans are signed up.
Do you know that this selfishness is the reason why many dont like Americans anymore. I say it again there is a hole World out there not only the USA so stop whining. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Um... you should wake up and learn your own community better?
If Europe is SO much more active than the USA, then how come they don't have one league that is <b>half</b> as succesful as CAL?
Europe = less active than USA clan scene wise
For further proof there is a reason why Euro clans play in American leagues but no americans play in Euro leagues.... it's not secret, the USA clan scene is much more active.
I think we can all agree that I win this battle <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Why must everybody sign up in an League ? And we have <a href='http://www.clanbase.com' target='_blank'>Clanbase</a>
Here some Nice info from the NS Ladder
The following clans recently joined the ladder:
Date Name 22 Jun Eternal Fire 19 Jun et cetera 18 Jun Boostaboys 18 Jun FragNets Gaming 17 Jun team.w00t.be 9 Jun eu thanatos 7 Jun #prolamers 7 Jun Asylum-Team2 6 Jun deadly Teamwork 4 Jun navigaatio suomi manne 3 Jun Närke Syndikatet! 1 Jun Soporna 1 Jun OhNo 31 May Anti-Camping Vegetables 27 May Silver-Tag 9 May The Urban Legend 9 May #overmind.pl - Polish NS Communi... 22 Apr Allied Serial Killers Natural-Se... 17 Apr Prophecy 11 Apr sw33t3 27 Mar Retarded Animals 21 Mar mystery level 19 Mar elite butchers 16 Mar Puritanical Euphoric Misanthrope... 11 Mar Pitkät kalsarit 6 Mar NY - BronX 1 Mar RiskeeraajanRaiskaajanRuiskautus 27 Feb Killing Xpress 22 Feb Swedish Warlords 15 Feb sHriMpSTylE 13 Feb War Gods 11 Feb jyvaskylan kynaajaat 6 Feb dark terrorist 5 Feb Klebab 4 Feb Scream 25 Jan #planet-ability 20 Jan "beware of" #NS team 20 Jan Struggle For Survival . NS 16 Jan dickless alcoholists CS 13 Jan Division Wiking 12 Jan Scrotum Kommando 11 Jan God Blessed Us 9 Jan CiacH'o 7 Jan Nick 6 Jan nordland 5 Jan new Ciber naco 4 Jan Latvian Violents 3 Jan worm hole 3 Jan nhoc 2 Jan DKF
What do you say now Forlon ? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> But i must admit that are not much Wars played at the Moment in the Ladder. The most Clans play only PCW´s at present.
But Clanbase is not the only League here in Europe we have many more for example ESL.
lolololol whatever raistlin. the euro scene is **** for clanning, you seen uknsl? about 10 active clans in it, and that's like the only decent euro league atm. it takes the **** imo. as a clanner speaking from experience i can say that most clanners out there are arrogant and only play public to show off their "l33t ski1z!!11" and if this is ****, then why do i read "coming to own some newbs on yo/mrmen/random.foreign.server?"? most of the clans only scrim to show how better they are than the rest, it's like poeple actually care about the results of a pcw/scrim and then brag about it lolololol i see some clans put the latest pcw results in their channel topic: x vs y - 4-0! GG you can win in a practive match, keep on truckin! anyway, the scene over here sucks ball, too few clans - even ktdm folded (plus other reasons) because NO ONE would actually play them in practice because they were scared of losing.. i co-lead my own clan, and it shows something is wrong with the community when i spout this crap and haven't loaded steam up in a week and don't even intend to do so. the euro community is tainted by a few arrogant, bitching kiddies who cannot comprehend the fact that a game is for the purposes of fun, it's either win or don't play at all.. [/rant]
First. Leagues are not everything !!!!! Second. Everybody knows that at the moment NS needs some Tweaks before we could really think about playing in a ladder. There is no Fun in having thousands of 2:2 Wars in an Ladder
Only because the Leagues are not full with playing Clan s didn´t mean that the Clan Scene is dead. Usually our Clan amsg 10 min before an PCW in IRC for an opponent and we always find one. How could this be in an inactive Scene ?
Heh i good an tip for all the pessimist out there. Look at my cute avatar maybe you gonna laugh and see everything a little bit more optimistic <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
HAH! it's hell for us looking for a pcw, no one actually on our level wants to play us, it's either synrg, or a bloody swedish mix B) why should i be optimistic? there's nothing to be happy about at all, the community is dire and needs a surge of new clans.
There can be done something <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> join #flummis-selection @ qnet And if you are an Europe Clan we surely can arrange an War <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> (American Clans are not so good because of the Timezones, everybody needs some sleep) But we dont play at the Weekend (Got better thinks to do for example PARTY <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) But from Monday - Thursday we play every Evening We always look for a good Clan to battle against. And as you can see <a href='http://scorner.de/index.php?show=war_result' target='_blank'>here</a> we are very active
And i say it again please stop reversing my Posts into something bad and use your Energy for finding an solution for the US Clan Scene !
I just want to get back to the discussion on pubs vs clans.
A lot of people have been pointing out the things I've been addressing - its easier to label whole clans as griefers because they have a TAG, which is a nice and easy identifier. Its like race, or accent, or sports team. Its a big handy brush for tarring everyone with.
Second, again we see the more experienced players saying that the pubbers shouldn't whine if they get owned by someone above their skill level. My question is why is the person of a superior skill level in the game deliberately screwing about? People don't play games to get destroyed. Losing is fine, because if you're losing you're also LEARNING. And again there is a world of difference between tagging a fade with one shot before he swipes you and one fade wiping out a room of marines without a scratch. In one scenario you've learned to be faster on the draw, in the other scenario you've learned nothing.
You may say its not your problem. That may well be true, but at the same time making NS is noone's specific problem either. Noone's under an obligation to make the game for you, folks. What if someone turned round and say "you know, stop playing NS, now, you all suck and can't play it properly". That person could say you're not his problem. Would you like him for it? Would you keep playing NS? No, in all probability you'd whine and flame and then GO ELSEWHERE.
This is what happens when experienced players deliberately beat on the less skilled. By all means, smurf under a different name. But an arse by any other name still smells as foul. You're still killing the community. I'd love to see more clan tags on my pubs and not be worrying about whether or not they're going to be a complete smacktard. I EXPECT BETTER FROM THE "BEST" OF THE COMMUNITY. If you can't play "pub style", clear off? If you get your jollies from beating on people worse off than yourself then I wish you a happy life. When I was seriously into my tabletop games I had no joy from thrashing lower ranking opponents. There was no challenge, and no pride in saying "oh i beat little johnny by 400 points". It meant nothing. Anyone could have beaten him. All you prove is that you're compensating for your other shortfalls.
As for the inter-clan attitude, does anyone not think thats because of the way its always been? I mean, if most of the clans you play end up telling you to quit, or calling you noobs, are you ever going to ask someone for help? Someone has to be an adult about it and extend the hand to the little guys. If you do it RIGHT then there's no reason it should sound condescending. Why not offer to play a few friendlies? Tell them they've got potential and you're looking for an unofficial game some weekend, perhaps trade some skills. Thats a lot more friendly sounding than "you really sucked, we can teach you to be better".
I can only speak from EXPERIENCE, and experience has taught me that if you approach someone in the right way then they'll be receptive to the suggestion. If you romp all over them then waste 20 minutes eating your own hive for humour value then you can hardly expect them to treat your offer seriously. Win the game, and if you win really big then just wait a day or two before sending off an email saying you'd like a bit of crosstraining or whatever.
There are so few friendly clanner faces and its ESSENTIAL for them to exist. TAGS mean a lot, they make you easy to spot, its like painting yourself a bright lurid pink. People will see what you're doing. So act nice, don't remove the tag and still be a smacktard. If someone is licking up to you, why not ask them to be quiet and say you'll be "watching them" in the game. Most will shut up because they think they're being scouted. Second, this could be an advantage because you'll have a more receptive team since some will be wanting to join a clan......... in an ideal world where clanners are seen as majority friendly.
You can't really do anything about the pubbers because they outnumber the clanners and the pubbers dont wear tags. You will of course notice that that does NOT stop people labelling all non-tag wearers as "pubbers" and thus skilless.... when a lot of pubbers are actually quite good.
Shanks hit the nail on the head with his first post (balance issues).
Who knows what everyone else here is rambling about? Heh. :/
I myself stay clear of the competitive scene with any game that is severely "jacked up".
Too many scripters, bunny hoppers, ESP'ers... too many balance issues (read: marine pwn). Too many cool elements removed from the game, probably because of stability/lag issues. But still... if fun value drops, what's the point?
Too many new retarded maps. Too many changes to good old maps.
Public play stinks now. Too many new players, too many young players. Learning curve for aliens is too demanding (judging by how many people I see day after day wandering around doing sh|t). Too many lame **** admins making up their own special server rules (no blocking elevators, etc..).
Early on, I **** and moaned about bringing a new style of play to NS (combat). I didn't want to see the player population divided. I didn't like the idea of a less strategic game type brought in.
But now, I am SO glad combat is here... because normal public NS games drive me mad. I hop server, to server, to server, to server... attempting to find a reasonable team with decent players and that has more than 2 people with a microphone (and are actually using it wisely).
That rarely happens these days. It seems a lot of the old vets from 1.04 moved on only to be replaced by teenie-bopping ex-counterstrike rejects.
Thus, I say: BRING ON THE COMBAT! Even though it has it's own problems, it still bakes the cake better than regular NS at this moment.
Comments
Interesting thing to say when the last beta build is barely 2 months old...
Admins note: This thread has bordered on a flamewar a few times too often, and since personal attacks and factual arguments are often almost impossible to differentiate, it was difficult to take moderative actions. I'm going to keep an eye on the thread and will lock it if it goes out of hand. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would be a bad thing, as the NS competitive scene could use some people reading this thread. I've already found a few new people pugging, probably because they read this thread here.
Also, clan Infinite Reverence has died. Another blow to the community.
Only because in CAL are 20 clans and 2 american Clans are dying you say the NS Clan scene is dying ?
Heh wake up there is a world outside the USA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For Example here in Europe we have more than 50 Clans (i dont counted them but i think there are much more in Europe)
For example my Clan plays about 5 Scrims per week against different Clans. Yes you heard right it is not always the same Clan <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And there are 3 other Continents that also have clans.
And CAL is not the non plus ultra.
There is for example Clanbase where most of the European Clans are signed up.
Do you know that this selfishness is the reason why many dont like Americans anymore. I say it again there is a hole World out there not only the USA so stop whining.
Insert 'USA' before 'Clan Scene' if you want.
I hate it when other countries come on when Americans are talking (about ourselves) and act as if you've insulted them by ignoring them... sigh
Only because in CAL are 20 clans and 2 american Clans are dying you say the NS Clan scene is dying ?
Heh wake up there is a world outside the USA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For Example here in Europe we have more than 50 Clans (i dont counted them but i think there are much more in Europe)
And there are 3 other Continents that also have clans.
And CAL is not the non plus ultra.
There is for example Clanbase where most of the European Clans are signed up.
Do you know that this selfishness is the reason why many dont like Americans anymore. I say it again there is a hole World out there not only the USA so stop whining. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't care for your crap justification of hating Americans. The point is, is that the CAL clanbase gets smaller each day, or so it seems. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And when did i said that i hate Americans ?
I only said that the some people don´t like Americans because of this.
And to you e.Nadagast.
Read the first Post. It reads like all Clans over the World have a Problem but it isn´t so. So it was right what i said. If Jmmsbnd007 had said that the NS Scene have problems then i wouldn´t have post this.
I only dont like when you talk about something like USA is the Center of the World and with the first post it looked like this.
I´am feel very sorry for the NS Clan scene but the Post of Jmmsbnd007 in this form wasn´t correct.
I?am no Gypsy who can can read Minds <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If one person thats not life in the USA reads this he can easily think that this is a problem to the whole NS Clan scene not only to the US Clan Scene.
And i admit that my first post was a bit hard. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And when did i said that i hate Americans ?
I only said that the some people don´t like Americans because of this.
And to you e.Nadagast.
Read the first Post. It reads like all Clans over the World have a Problem but it isn´t so. So it was right what i said. If Jmmsbnd007 had said that the NS Scene have problems then i wouldn´t have post this.
I only dont like when you talk about something like USA is the Center of the World and with the first post it looked like this.
I´am feel very sorry for the NS Clan scene but the Post of Jmmsbnd007 in this form wasn´t correct. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did I ever say the US was the center of the world? Quit it with the anti-Americanism and the thread sidetrack. The NS competetive community does need help, and if you don't think so, then surely you can agree that it could use many more clans.
1. I said that this post was a little bit hard
2. This Forum is an international Forum. And when you think that Posting the NS Competitive Scene have problems is implying that you only mean the US NS Community than you are indeed selfish.
But now stop and accept that you and i made a mistake and lets think again what we can do to help the US Clan Scene.
But if you like would could also flame forever <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
1. I said that this post was a little bit hard
2. This Forum is an international Forum. And when you think that Posting the NS Competitive Scene have problems is implying that you only mean the US NS Community than you are indeed selfish.
But now stop and accept that you and i made a mistake and lets think again what we can do to help the US Clan Scene.
But if you like would could also flame forever <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
...whatever.
The point is, is that 30 clans in a mod of hundreds of thousands is pretty rediculous IMO. Just trying to help.
Heh the problem is solved
In your first Post you said there are about 20 Clans but now we are already at 30 <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
</ironic>
Maybe if the ATI Tournement would be held with cool Prices we would see more Clans.
Heh the problem is solved
In your first Post you said there are about 20 Clans but now we are already at 30 <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
</ironic>
Maybe if the ATI Tournement would be held with cool Prices we would see more Clans. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yap im sure they are eager to give ati cards for a ONLINE tournament
- If tournament prizes are the only that will inspire people to join a clan then some thing is VERY wrong - people should want to because they may find it more enjoyable being part of a close-nit team that works well and being able to play in a more professional atmosphere
-- a big juicy graphics card at the end shouldn't be the incentive
But i admit it is easier to see everything from the bad side <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Heh the problem is solved
In your first Post you said there are about 20 Clans but now we are already at 30 <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
</ironic>
Maybe if the ATI Tournement would be held with cool Prices we would see more Clans. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm... miscounted on the first post I guess.
Things are ok for now but already clans are beggining to fold again. I don't know whether it's just the ebb and flow of clan NS or something worse, but it is worrying and i hope you guys keep the US side going strong.
As i already said my Clan (FbH you probably know us <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
have about 5 Scrims per week against different Clans.
I think that things only slows down a bit because everybody is awaiting the new Version like in the Days of 1.04 everbody was waiting for 2.0 (I only say BUS <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> . Everybody wants to know what it is)
@ To all other
Stop searching arguments against a tournement.
Use your energy to find more Ideas to keep the Scene alive.
Making everything look bad don?t bring us any further !
Seeing everything from the bad side is actually an growing Trend in these Forums (This is one of the Reasons why the Clan scene have Problems because many are so pessimistic now)
Some examples:
Balancing is bad
Lerk without Spike is bad
and so on
Don?t see everything so pessimistic.
P.S. In my previous Posts i?ve forgotten to say that i indeed hate some Americans. These are Bush / Cheney / Rumsfeld / Rice <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And now lets stick back on Topic <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Only because in CAL are 20 clans and 2 american Clans are dying you say the NS Clan scene is dying ?
Heh wake up there is a world outside the USA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For Example here in Europe we have more than 50 Clans (i dont counted them but i think there are much more in Europe)
For example my Clan plays about 5 Scrims per week against different Clans. Yes you heard right it is not always the same Clan <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And there are 3 other Continents that also have clans.
And CAL is not the non plus ultra.
There is for example Clanbase where most of the European Clans are signed up.
Do you know that this selfishness is the reason why many dont like Americans anymore. I say it again there is a hole World out there not only the USA so stop whining. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um... you should wake up and learn your own community better?
If Europe is SO much more active than the USA, then how come they don't have one league that is <b>half</b> as succesful as CAL?
Europe = less active than USA clan scene wise
For further proof there is a reason why Euro clans play in American leagues but no americans play in Euro leagues.... it's not secret, the USA clan scene is much more active.
Why must everybody sign up in an League ?
And we have <a href='http://www.clanbase.com' target='_blank'>Clanbase</a>
Here some Nice info from the NS Ladder
The following clans recently joined the ladder:
Date Name
22 Jun Eternal Fire
19 Jun et cetera
18 Jun Boostaboys
18 Jun FragNets Gaming
17 Jun team.w00t.be
9 Jun eu thanatos
7 Jun #prolamers
7 Jun Asylum-Team2
6 Jun deadly Teamwork
4 Jun navigaatio suomi manne
3 Jun Närke Syndikatet!
1 Jun Soporna
1 Jun OhNo
31 May Anti-Camping Vegetables
27 May Silver-Tag
9 May The Urban Legend
9 May #overmind.pl - Polish NS Communi...
22 Apr Allied Serial Killers Natural-Se...
17 Apr Prophecy
11 Apr sw33t3
27 Mar Retarded Animals
21 Mar mystery level
19 Mar elite butchers
16 Mar Puritanical Euphoric Misanthrope...
11 Mar Pitkät kalsarit
6 Mar NY - BronX
1 Mar RiskeeraajanRaiskaajanRuiskautus
27 Feb Killing Xpress
22 Feb Swedish Warlords
15 Feb sHriMpSTylE
13 Feb War Gods
11 Feb jyvaskylan kynaajaat
6 Feb dark terrorist
5 Feb Klebab
4 Feb Scream
25 Jan #planet-ability
20 Jan "beware of" #NS team
20 Jan Struggle For Survival . NS
16 Jan dickless alcoholists CS
13 Jan Division Wiking
12 Jan Scrotum Kommando
11 Jan God Blessed Us
9 Jan CiacH'o
7 Jan Nick
6 Jan nordland
5 Jan new Ciber naco
4 Jan Latvian Violents
3 Jan worm hole
3 Jan nhoc
2 Jan DKF
What do you say now Forlon ? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But i must admit that are not much Wars played at the Moment in the Ladder. The most Clans play only PCW´s at present.
But Clanbase is not the only League here in Europe we have many more for example ESL.
whatever raistlin. the euro scene is **** for clanning, you seen uknsl? about 10 active clans in it, and that's like the only decent euro league atm. it takes the **** imo.
as a clanner speaking from experience i can say that most clanners out there are arrogant and only play public to show off their "l33t ski1z!!11" and if this is ****, then why do i read "coming to own some newbs on yo/mrmen/random.foreign.server?"?
most of the clans only scrim to show how better they are than the rest, it's like poeple actually care about the results of a pcw/scrim and then brag about it lolololol
i see some clans put the latest pcw results in their channel topic: x vs y - 4-0! GG you can win in a practive match, keep on truckin!
anyway, the scene over here sucks ball, too few clans - even ktdm folded (plus other reasons) because NO ONE would actually play them in practice because they were scared of losing..
i co-lead my own clan, and it shows something is wrong with the community when i spout this crap and haven't loaded steam up in a week and don't even intend to do so.
the euro community is tainted by a few arrogant, bitching kiddies who cannot comprehend the fact that a game is for the purposes of fun, it's either win or don't play at all.. [/rant]
Second. Everybody knows that at the moment NS needs some Tweaks before we could really think about playing in a ladder. There is no Fun in having thousands of 2:2 Wars in an Ladder
Only because the Leagues are not full with playing Clan s didn´t mean that the Clan Scene is dead. Usually our Clan amsg 10 min before an PCW in IRC for an opponent and we always find one. How could this be in an inactive Scene ?
Heh i good an tip for all the pessimist out there.
Look at my cute avatar maybe you gonna laugh and see everything a little bit more optimistic <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
why should i be optimistic? there's nothing to be happy about at all, the community is dire and needs a surge of new clans.
join #flummis-selection @ qnet
And if you are an Europe Clan we surely can arrange an War <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> (American Clans are not so good because of the Timezones, everybody needs some sleep)
But we dont play at the Weekend (Got better thinks to do for example PARTY <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
But from Monday - Thursday we play every Evening
We always look for a good Clan to battle against. And as you can see <a href='http://scorner.de/index.php?show=war_result' target='_blank'>here</a> we are very active
And i say it again please stop reversing my Posts into something bad and use your Energy for finding an solution for the US Clan Scene !
A lot of people have been pointing out the things I've been addressing - its easier to label whole clans as griefers because they have a TAG, which is a nice and easy identifier. Its like race, or accent, or sports team. Its a big handy brush for tarring everyone with.
Second, again we see the more experienced players saying that the pubbers shouldn't whine if they get owned by someone above their skill level. My question is why is the person of a superior skill level in the game deliberately screwing about? People don't play games to get destroyed. Losing is fine, because if you're losing you're also LEARNING. And again there is a world of difference between tagging a fade with one shot before he swipes you and one fade wiping out a room of marines without a scratch. In one scenario you've learned to be faster on the draw, in the other scenario you've learned nothing.
You may say its not your problem. That may well be true, but at the same time making NS is noone's specific problem either. Noone's under an obligation to make the game for you, folks. What if someone turned round and say "you know, stop playing NS, now, you all suck and can't play it properly". That person could say you're not his problem. Would you like him for it? Would you keep playing NS? No, in all probability you'd whine and flame and then GO ELSEWHERE.
This is what happens when experienced players deliberately beat on the less skilled. By all means, smurf under a different name. But an arse by any other name still smells as foul. You're still killing the community. I'd love to see more clan tags on my pubs and not be worrying about whether or not they're going to be a complete smacktard. I EXPECT BETTER FROM THE "BEST" OF THE COMMUNITY. If you can't play "pub style", clear off? If you get your jollies from beating on people worse off than yourself then I wish you a happy life. When I was seriously into my tabletop games I had no joy from thrashing lower ranking opponents. There was no challenge, and no pride in saying "oh i beat little johnny by 400 points". It meant nothing. Anyone could have beaten him. All you prove is that you're compensating for your other shortfalls.
As for the inter-clan attitude, does anyone not think thats because of the way its always been? I mean, if most of the clans you play end up telling you to quit, or calling you noobs, are you ever going to ask someone for help? Someone has to be an adult about it and extend the hand to the little guys. If you do it RIGHT then there's no reason it should sound condescending. Why not offer to play a few friendlies? Tell them they've got potential and you're looking for an unofficial game some weekend, perhaps trade some skills. Thats a lot more friendly sounding than "you really sucked, we can teach you to be better".
I can only speak from EXPERIENCE, and experience has taught me that if you approach someone in the right way then they'll be receptive to the suggestion. If you romp all over them then waste 20 minutes eating your own hive for humour value then you can hardly expect them to treat your offer seriously. Win the game, and if you win really big then just wait a day or two before sending off an email saying you'd like a bit of crosstraining or whatever.
There are so few friendly clanner faces and its ESSENTIAL for them to exist. TAGS mean a lot, they make you easy to spot, its like painting yourself a bright lurid pink. People will see what you're doing. So act nice, don't remove the tag and still be a smacktard. If someone is licking up to you, why not ask them to be quiet and say you'll be "watching them" in the game. Most will shut up because they think they're being scouted. Second, this could be an advantage because you'll have a more receptive team since some will be wanting to join a clan......... in an ideal world where clanners are seen as majority friendly.
You can't really do anything about the pubbers because they outnumber the clanners and the pubbers dont wear tags. You will of course notice that that does NOT stop people labelling all non-tag wearers as "pubbers" and thus skilless.... when a lot of pubbers are actually quite good.
Who knows what everyone else here is rambling about? Heh. :/
I myself stay clear of the competitive scene with any game that is severely "jacked up".
Too many scripters, bunny hoppers, ESP'ers... too many balance issues (read: marine pwn). Too many cool elements removed from the game, probably because of stability/lag issues. But still... if fun value drops, what's the point?
Too many new retarded maps. Too many changes to good old maps.
Public play stinks now. Too many new players, too many young players. Learning curve for aliens is too demanding (judging by how many people I see day after day wandering around doing sh|t). Too many lame **** admins making up their own special server rules (no blocking elevators, etc..).
Early on, I **** and moaned about bringing a new style of play to NS (combat). I didn't want to see the player population divided. I didn't like the idea of a less strategic game type brought in.
But now, I am SO glad combat is here... because normal public NS games drive me mad. I hop server, to server, to server, to server... attempting to find a reasonable team with decent players and that has more than 2 people with a microphone (and are actually using it wisely).
That rarely happens these days. It seems a lot of the old vets from 1.04 moved on only to be replaced by teenie-bopping ex-counterstrike rejects.
Thus, I say: BRING ON THE COMBAT! Even though it has it's own problems, it still bakes the cake better than regular NS at this moment.