ByekaName changed from Freak83TorontoJoin Date: 2003-03-13Member: 14484Members, Constellation
Now see, why would you do something like that BadKarma? I mean, he was just guarded. No rational wolf would kill one of their own hoping they would be guarded. Especially when there had never been a successfull NS TWG guard before that.
By voting for Saltz you're basically saying "I am a wolf".
Jeez, so, let's count off all the other people who were in one way or another a part of your false web, Saltz: im lost Planetkiller Freak Soul Rider Hellfire
Are these people all wolves as well? Because if they are, then there's no way you could also know that both lolfighter and pithlit are humans. However, if you <i>don't</i> know, then why would any straight-minded seer actively try to confuse the humans this much? You have to be a human, this I see, but I don't think you are the seer. In fact, your actions are helping the wolves more than the humans, I would say.
<!--QuoteBegin-SaltzBad+May 9 2005, 03:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SaltzBad @ May 9 2005, 03:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now that every single one of you out there knows I'm human, its time to go on the blunt offense. I don't expect to live all that long anymore, and if I do - well woop-di-doo.
There is <i>2 seer networks</i> out there. That much should be obvious by now. One of them has contacted <b>Sky</b>, the other <i>lolfighter</i>. The one contacting Sky is entirely fake - because it was iniated by me. Skys defensive last moment move at this point is obvious, namely try to pin the fake network on anyone but the real initiator, to give himself credibility. That however won't work, so from this point on you can safely regard anything he says as pointless diversion.
And infact, I will be able to inform you right after the lynch of <b>Sky</b>s wolfishness for absolutely certain - obviously via the psychic. This is pretty much a sealed deal at this point, there is no third seer network out there - and theres no excuse for distrusting me anymore.
Congratulations to the gaurdian, to be honest. You took this one home with you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> As you say yourself, <i>you</i> initiated the fake seer network that Sky was part of. You were the one that claimed to be the seer, and told Sky and I that we were confirmed humans. Now that you are a confirmed human, we had every reason to believe this to be the truth. However, now that you have voted for Sky, I don't really know what is happening.
I have heard from a couple of other sources that you contacted them to create other seer networks. By the end of Night Three, I was 100% convinced you were a wolf. Now that you have been successfully guarded, the chances that you are a wolf are so small that they aren't worth considering, as far as I'm concerned. With all of the people you have contacted, and the boldness of your actions now, you have to be the seer, as far as I can tell. This means that the guardian should keep guarding you every night, since a confirmed seer is practically a guaranteed human win. However, I would really like to know what is going on. If I'm not in any network, please tell me, and leave it at that if you wish.
For now, I will leave my random vote where it is, since Freak83 has no chance of dying.
I'm going to change my vote to <b>BadKarma</b>, until I can be 100% sure of Saltz's reasoning. It <i>does</i> seem like an odd approach, given what little info we have. As Xentor said on IRC a minute ago, "This is what bugs me... The wolves want confusion. They want to keep us guessing so we lynch each other. The seer and psychic are supposed to find the simple truth."
Maybe it's just because I don't have the full picture that I don't have the perspective. All I know is that Saltz is human. I <i>do</i> think that Sky is a wolf, but there are still enough unknown variables that could lead to him being wrong. And God knows I obviously haven't been paying attention.
I´m going to vote for <b>Badkarma</b>, since his last vote against saltz is really suspicious as freak pointed out. You better do something about it buddy!
Soul Rider, don't forget to actually place a vote. If you insist on not being a part of the current confrontation, at least place a random vote to avoid a phantom vote. I'm not sure this day will end in instalynch, mostly because more time is a good thing for humans.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Who did you seer on night one?
The reason i ask is that you apparently seered 2 players on the same night.
You have told both Sky and lolfighter you seered them on night 1.
As we know this is impossible.
Sky openly believes you to be the seer. Your attempted wolfing last night comfirmed that.
OR DID IT?
Through sheer luck you confirmed the guardian on night 2 and myself on night 3.
I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU ARE THE SEER.
I believe you are working to protect one you believe is the seer. I believe you are working for a wolf.
You have some explaining to do, i hope you have some good answers.
@im_lost: getting a phantom does not really seem to be a problem for me, as now i am sure i will not live through the night.
Here are my current thoughts:
Humans:
Sky Saltzbad Lolfighter Hellfire3k Soul Rider
Wolves: Badkarma (no human can be as silly with votes as you are being) Quaunaut Snidely (This is an outside chance a really nothing strong on this one, just a gut instinct <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
If you are not mentioned i have either forgotten, or do not have feelings either way on you.
I am now convinced that <b>BadKarma</b> is a wolf, and as i have said all along, i will vote for someone when i believe they are a wolf.
Alright, I've heard enough... I'm changing my vote to <b>Quaunaut</b> (No suspicions, just a throwaway) until I hear some proof... I thought this would be pretty simple, with Saltzbad being a confirmed human now, but I'm starting to think I missed something.
So I'm with PK on this one. Salt, if you want my vote back, earn it. I trust you to be human, but that's all.
Hmm.. SoulRider, you're being quite suspicious. While you believe SaltzBad, you also believe Sky? SaltzBad already believes Sky is a wolf, yet you believe both of them to be human? You're just sowing more confusion. I'm not too sure about you now.
The theory about BadKarma and Snidely being wolves seem strange though. Snidely voted FOR BadKarma. I don't see any reason why, although I do have some reservations about Snidely.
Although it all does make sense if SaltzBad was a wolf though. BadKarma voted for SaltzBad and Snidely starts a vote on BadKarma. Hmm. I don't know though, this is all mindless speculation.
<!--QuoteBegin-ZeroByte+May 10 2005, 08:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZeroByte @ May 10 2005, 08:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The theory about BadKarma and Snidely being wolves seem strange though. Snidely voted FOR BadKarma. I don't see any reason why, although I do have some reservations about Snidely. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Uhh need to clarify this statement. I know why Snidely voted for BadKarma. I mean that if SoulRider believes that BadKarma and Snidely are both wolves, the vote for a fellow wolf makes no sense.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--QuoteBegin-Soul Rider+May 10 2005, 12:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soul Rider @ May 10 2005, 12:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Snidely (This is an outside chance a really nothing strong on this one, just a gut instinct <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> There is no evidence behind my suspicion of snidely, you know when you just dont like someone?
Well thats how i feel about snidely's personality in this game.
He probably isnt a wolf, but then with no dnager of BadKarma of getting voted off, he could easily do that to throw away suspicion.
You mention you are unsure of me Zerobyte, well all i have to say is i have been outed already on these forums as the pyschic, which i why i expect to last until my death tonight, as the guardian will do what is right and protect our only possible seer in Saltzbad.
I will give out the results of my Pyschic PM as soon as i receive it tonight, but that will be all you will here of me as i am sure to be wolfed.
I fear the message will still be there are 4 wolves in the game.
If you are still suspicious of me then there is no way i can placate you, and you are way too paranoid <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
BadKarmaThe Advanced Literature monsters burned my house and gave me a 7Join Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8260Members
My hope is that I leave a significant corpse. I realized that I had been singled out long before Saltz came out with his "evidence" and was a dead man buy the time his plan came out. So, I hope to die with my finger firmly pointed at Saltz and his crew. I didnt recognize his contacts for what they were early enough.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--QuoteBegin-BadKarma+May 10 2005, 02:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BadKarma @ May 10 2005, 02:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My hope is that I leave a significant corpse. I realized that I had been singled out long before Saltz came out with his "evidence" and was a dead man buy the time his plan came out. So, I hope to die with my finger firmly pointed at Saltz and his crew. I didnt recognize his contacts for what they were early enough. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> With Sky blazing a trail ahead with the most number of votes i hardly think it likely you will die today, and as i will be dead tonight, at your hand probably, you aren't very likely to die tomorrow.
So quit bringing more attention to yourself, you might live <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There is no evidence behind my suspicion of snidely, you know when you just dont like someone?
Well thats how i feel about snidely's personality in this game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
):}
Anyway. My vote for BadKarma comes down to this:<ul><li>Sky pointed to him in his post, when quoting the unnamed source. <i>("My suspicions for the wolves are strong on Quaunaut, Freak83 and BadKarma.")</i></li><li>BadKarma's strange reaction to Saltz.</li></ul> Unless both parties (Sky vs. Saltz) here are being played, we have an overlap.
It's also down to the fact that Saltz hasn't explained himself in full yet. I may change back to Sky, depending on the evidence provided.
I don't feel well about making guesses. My beliefs about what's going on in this game have now been spun around so often that I'm no longer sure of my own role anymore. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> All kidding aside, I don't feel well about making guesses. But if I had to make a guess about BadKarma, I'd say that he's a human. Why? As Soul Rider said, "no human can be as silly with votes as you are being." I think this applies very well to the <i>wolves,</i> actually. The wolves don't want suspicion on themselves, and voting for a (practically) confirmed human is just about the most suspicious thing you can do. Furthermore, wolves have superior knowledge to the game, and are therefore not very prone to confusion. Humans, on the other hand, are susceptible to confusion, paranoia and manipulation. I think I know that better than anybody by now. And I think that's what's happening to BadKarma right now.
BadKarma, I nevertheless strongly suggest that you change that vote (oh I can just hear the cries of "bully" now - I hold TheMuffinMan and Sky responsible for giving me that image). You ARE voting for someone who is almost certainly a human. If you are not going to change it, you better make a very strong case for yourself.
Comments
By voting for Saltz you're basically saying "I am a wolf".
Freak83 - 1 (im lost)
lolfighter - 1 (Sky)
Sky - 5 (Saltzbad, Snidely, Planetkiller, Freak83, Xentor)
Saltzbad - 1 (BadKarma)
Instalynch at 8
im lost
Planetkiller
Freak
Soul Rider
Hellfire
Are these people all wolves as well? Because if they are, then there's no way you could also know that both lolfighter and pithlit are humans. However, if you <i>don't</i> know, then why would any straight-minded seer actively try to confuse the humans this much? You have to be a human, this I see, but I don't think you are the seer. In fact, your actions are helping the wolves more than the humans, I would say.
There is <i>2 seer networks</i> out there. That much should be obvious by now. One of them has contacted <b>Sky</b>, the other <i>lolfighter</i>. The one contacting Sky is entirely fake - because it was iniated by me. Skys defensive last moment move at this point is obvious, namely try to pin the fake network on anyone but the real initiator, to give himself credibility. That however won't work, so from this point on you can safely regard anything he says as pointless diversion.
And infact, I will be able to inform you right after the lynch of <b>Sky</b>s wolfishness for absolutely certain - obviously via the psychic. This is pretty much a sealed deal at this point, there is no third seer network out there - and theres no excuse for distrusting me anymore.
Congratulations to the gaurdian, to be honest. You took this one home with you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As you say yourself, <i>you</i> initiated the fake seer network that Sky was part of. You were the one that claimed to be the seer, and told Sky and I that we were confirmed humans. Now that you are a confirmed human, we had every reason to believe this to be the truth. However, now that you have voted for Sky, I don't really know what is happening.
I have heard from a couple of other sources that you contacted them to create other seer networks. By the end of Night Three, I was 100% convinced you were a wolf. Now that you have been successfully guarded, the chances that you are a wolf are so small that they aren't worth considering, as far as I'm concerned. With all of the people you have contacted, and the boldness of your actions now, you have to be the seer, as far as I can tell. This means that the guardian should keep guarding you every night, since a confirmed seer is practically a guaranteed human win. However, I would really like to know what is going on. If I'm not in any network, please tell me, and leave it at that if you wish.
For now, I will leave my random vote where it is, since Freak83 has no chance of dying.
Maybe it's just because I don't have the full picture that I don't have the perspective. All I know is that Saltz is human. I <i>do</i> think that Sky is a wolf, but there are still enough unknown variables that could lead to him being wrong. And God knows I obviously haven't been paying attention.
Freak83 - 1 (im lost)
lolfighter - 1 (Sky)
Sky - 3 (Saltzbad, Freak83, Xentor)
Saltzbad - 1 (BadKarma)
BadKarma - 1 (Snidely)
Hellfire3k - 1 (Planetkiller)
Instalynch at 8
lolfighter - 1 (Sky)
Sky - 5 (Saltzbad, Freak83, Xentor, im lost, Hellfire3k)
Saltzbad - 1 (BadKarma)
BadKarma - 1 (Snidely)
Hellfire3k - 1 (Planetkiller)
Instalynch at 8
This game is wonderful for post counts.
You better do something about it buddy!
lolfighter - 1 (Sky)
Sky - 6 (Saltzbad, Freak83, Xentor, im lost, Hellfire3k, ZeroByte)
Saltzbad - 1 (BadKarma)
BadKarma - 2 (Snidely, Pithlit)
Hellfire3k - 1 (Planetkiller)
Instalynch at 8
I am so bloody confused
I am 100% sure this game is screwed up.
Saltz, you are acting more wolfish than even teh wolfiest of wolves.
I thought i had seen everything, but this is going to take years to recover from.
Saltz, i dont trust you.
I don't understand.
Too much wierd crap is going on.
All the roles except the guardian are out in the public domain.
This is not a good sign for the humans.
Wish i read all the posts before sending out stupid PMs to people.
How can i vote for anyone when i trusted the 2 people now going head to head?
I'm thinking of quitting this game, i've got a headache <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The reason i ask is that you apparently seered 2 players on the same night.
You have told both Sky and lolfighter you seered them on night 1.
As we know this is impossible.
Sky openly believes you to be the seer. Your attempted wolfing last night comfirmed that.
OR DID IT?
Through sheer luck you confirmed the guardian on night 2 and myself on night 3.
I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU ARE THE SEER.
I believe you are working to protect one you believe is the seer. I believe you are working for a wolf.
You have some explaining to do, i hope you have some good answers.
@im_lost: getting a phantom does not really seem to be a problem for me, as now i am sure i will not live through the night.
Here are my current thoughts:
Humans:
Sky
Saltzbad
Lolfighter
Hellfire3k
Soul Rider
Wolves:
Badkarma (no human can be as silly with votes as you are being)
Quaunaut
Snidely (This is an outside chance a really nothing strong on this one, just a gut instinct <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
If you are not mentioned i have either forgotten, or do not have feelings either way on you.
I am now convinced that <b>BadKarma</b> is a wolf, and as i have said all along, i will vote for someone when i believe they are a wolf.
So I'm with PK on this one. Salt, if you want my vote back, earn it. I trust you to be human, but that's all.
The theory about BadKarma and Snidely being wolves seem strange though. Snidely voted FOR BadKarma. I don't see any reason why, although I do have some reservations about Snidely.
Although it all does make sense if SaltzBad was a wolf though. BadKarma voted for SaltzBad and Snidely starts a vote on BadKarma. Hmm. I don't know though, this is all mindless speculation.
Uhh need to clarify this statement. I know why Snidely voted for BadKarma. I mean that if SoulRider believes that BadKarma and Snidely are both wolves, the vote for a fellow wolf makes no sense.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is no evidence behind my suspicion of snidely, you know when you just dont like someone?
Well thats how i feel about snidely's personality in this game.
He probably isnt a wolf, but then with no dnager of BadKarma of getting voted off, he could easily do that to throw away suspicion.
You mention you are unsure of me Zerobyte, well all i have to say is i have been outed already on these forums as the pyschic, which i why i expect to last until my death tonight, as the guardian will do what is right and protect our only possible seer in Saltzbad.
I will give out the results of my Pyschic PM as soon as i receive it tonight, but that will be all you will here of me as i am sure to be wolfed.
I fear the message will still be there are 4 wolves in the game.
If you are still suspicious of me then there is no way i can placate you, and you are way too paranoid <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
With Sky blazing a trail ahead with the most number of votes i hardly think it likely you will die today, and as i will be dead tonight, at your hand probably, you aren't very likely to die tomorrow.
So quit bringing more attention to yourself, you might live <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well thats how i feel about snidely's personality in this game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
):}
Anyway. My vote for BadKarma comes down to this:<ul><li>Sky pointed to him in his post, when quoting the unnamed source. <i>("My suspicions for the wolves are strong on Quaunaut, Freak83 and BadKarma.")</i></li><li>BadKarma's strange reaction to Saltz.</li></ul>
Unless both parties (Sky vs. Saltz) here are being played, we have an overlap.
It's also down to the fact that Saltz hasn't explained himself in full yet. I may change back to Sky, depending on the evidence provided.
All kidding aside, I don't feel well about making guesses. But if I had to make a guess about BadKarma, I'd say that he's a human.
Why? As Soul Rider said, "no human can be as silly with votes as you are being." I think this applies very well to the <i>wolves,</i> actually. The wolves don't want suspicion on themselves, and voting for a (practically) confirmed human is just about the most suspicious thing you can do. Furthermore, wolves have superior knowledge to the game, and are therefore not very prone to confusion.
Humans, on the other hand, are susceptible to confusion, paranoia and manipulation. I think I know that better than anybody by now. And I think that's what's happening to BadKarma right now.
BadKarma, I nevertheless strongly suggest that you change that vote (oh I can just hear the cries of "bully" now - I hold TheMuffinMan and Sky responsible for giving me that image). You ARE voting for someone who is almost certainly a human. If you are not going to change it, you better make a very strong case for yourself.
I don't know what to believe, to be honest.
lolfighter - 1 (Sky)
Sky - 5 (Saltzbad, Freak83, im lost, Hellfire3k, ZeroByte)
BadKarma - 2 (Snidely, Pithlit)
Hellfire3k - 2 (Planetkiller, BadKarma)
Quaunaut - 1 (Xentor)
Instalynch at 8