Wow there goes my morning reading this beast of a thread <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As my name indicates, I come from G4B2S. I'm not here to debate that much, you've all done such lovely jobs of that yourselves. I'd just like to say that yes, G4B2S caters to the general public. We have always done so and always will. Many people here are saying that the general public are largely ignorant, so perhaps you can say we cater to the ignorant <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> It just so happens that the 'ignorant' masses enjoy playing with mp_blockscripts on, and while that doesn't make us anti-clan, at times you'll see that behavior manifest due to any normal pubber vs clanner encounter.
Also is the myth that public servers offer inferior teamwork/gameplay. I can't deny this, of course, but the severity some of the people here describe seems ludicrious. Turret farms are a passion for some, yes, but I think you'll find an equal amount of commanders which prefer a decent handful of upgrades. There is a large reg base out there which continually fills in the critical role gaps.
I think Fantasmo said it best, we need each other. So why the hatin' <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
@Forlorn: I can see your point, but since you haven't played on the server very recently, it isn't accurate. If you were still able to play on the server you would see hardly anyone getting banned, and if they do, it is a temp ban (and definitely seems justified). The admins aren't as ban happy as you would think. We have had people from #cri play on the server. I didn't hear them complaining much; I even think they enjoyed their games since they came back several times. They were a little mad that they had to take out the #, but that is to be expected. Most people know that is a rule. So before coming on the server, they should expect that they would have to get rid of it.
Members of cri were banned because they made a big deal out of removing the # from their names. They were not banned because they were clanners. They were not banned because they were better then us. They were banned because they argued the rules - and they just happened to do it in front of LB. The golden rule - you play on our server, you play by our rules. If you don't like the rules, you get out.
Skill had nothing to do with this, so I think you better find some more n00bs to critizise.
Also, unless you want to suggest somthing like AL NUBS NED TO GO TWO BEWT CAMP AND JOIN A CLAN TO PLAY NS LOL, regardless of any points you may or may not have made, making them is pointless. If the pubber community hates you, it is directly though your actions towards them, either indirectly through using scripts, or directly through in-game interaction. So therefore if you are infact correct, then you have nothing but yourself to blame. Perhaps if you started treating the general pubber a little better and were not so arrogant all the time, they would be nicer to you for allowing them to play NS how they see fit.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
Fading isn't bad. I think the issue is that sometimes the team would like you to drop the hive instead, for example because they want to practice Fade instead.
Let's face it. Fades have the most fun nowadays, and it just might seem unfair that the same person gets to have all the fun eveyr single round while others stay gorge, drop the hive, DCs, etc. Obviously for example if you Fade every round the team might habr the highest chance of winning, but sometimes the team would rather have a slightly less chance at winning than have the exact same roles every time.
If the rest of team asks you nicely to go gorge instead of Fading, you might want to do so if you've already been the primary Fade the previous few rounds.
<!--QuoteBegin-Redford+Nov 9 2004, 02:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Redford @ Nov 9 2004, 02:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also, unless you want to suggest somthing like AL NUBS NED TO GO TWO BEWT CAMP AND JOIN A CLAN TO PLAY NS LOL, regardless of any points you may or may not have made, making them is pointless. If the pubber community hates you, it is directly though your actions towards them, either indirectly through using scripts, or directly through in-game interaction. So therefore if you are infact correct, then you have nothing but yourself to blame. Perhaps if you started treating the general pubber a little better and were not so arrogant all the time, they would be nicer to you for allowing them to play NS how they see fit. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Generalisation alert.
Failure to discuss the point of the topic.
[Edit] Cheap rhetorical tricks to make arguements seem less valid.
<!--QuoteBegin-Redford+Nov 9 2004, 02:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Redford @ Nov 9 2004, 02:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Members of cri were banned because they made a big deal out of removing the # from their names. They were not banned because they were clanners. They were not banned because they were better then us. They were banned because they argued the rules - and they just happened to do it in front of LB. The golden rule - you play on our server, you play by our rules. If you don't like the rules, you get out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin-Lunix Monster's Rules+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lunix Monster's Rules)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
To my knowledge, advertising doesn't mean having a # in your name. It involves promoting some sort of product or in this case a channel. If my name was #cri.sano <#nslearn>, then yes, I would be advertising for #nslearn, Gunner had that and he was asked to change that, perfectly understandable. If I was going around shouting, "Go to #nslearn! You can pick up quite a few things there!" Then yes, that would be against the rules and I should be banned.
Now, #cri.sano, the #cri is NOT advertising. It would be the same as banning me for having [Blizzard]Sano or [McDonalds]Sano as my clan tag, because that's like advertising for the company. Wearing my clan tag #cri is something I do out of respect for my clan and its history, respect for the players in my clan, respect and a sense of accomplishment of what my clan has achieved, for better or for worse. To ask me to change my clan tag isn't because of advertisement, it's like an insult to my clan, and to me who is the leader of the clan. It's like asking the Green Bay Packers to drop Green Bay, it's an insult to the the place they represent, to the team itself, etc. That's why we were talking about it. And is there a rule against talking about why a rule is a bad rule? Nope, not that I have read. So we were banned for an unwritten rule. I respected the server admin enough to remove the # from my tag, Gunner said he is leaving very shortly. So I played by the rules, Gunner was leaving as you suggested in your post, but the admin or owner still banned us. I think the banning is more than breaking the rules, a rule that wasn't even written.
<!--QuoteBegin-|ds|meatshield+Nov 9 2004, 02:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|ds|meatshield @ Nov 9 2004, 02:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Fading isn't bad. I think the issue is that sometimes the team would like you to drop the hive instead, for example because they want to practice Fade instead. Let's face it. Fades have the most fun nowadays, and it just might seem unfair that the same person gets to have all the fun eveyr single round while others stay gorge, drop the hive, DCs, etc. Obviously for example if you Fade every round the team might habr the highest chance of winning, but sometimes the team would rather have a slightly less chance at winning than have the exact same roles every time. If the rest of team asks you nicely to go gorge instead of Fading, you might want to do so if you've already been the primary Fade the previous few rounds. <i>Let others have a shot at glory sometimes.</i> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think this echoes alot of how I feel sometimes. There is a post of a demo on LM.org forums that made of a somewhat "epic" game on hera. Yes, I am not the best skulk (<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->), but the main reason I liked that game, in retrospect, is the fact there wasn't that one uber fade to save the day for us. It was harder, but it was great fun. Had we lost that game, I would have still had a great time. The problem I encounter with certain clanners/vets, not all of them, is that when they join a team, any chance of versatile tactics go out the window. He'll fade, she'll lerk, they'll gorge, and NSPlayer will save 80 res and leave. As marine, he';ll either comm, and yell at how bad of a shot I am, or rambo and expect m to medspam him to victory when the rest of the team is at the WP I placed for him to go...
Note: THis is not directed at all clanners/vets, in fact, most of the competitive members I play with are generally good teammates. But arrogance of a few can ruin the reputation of many. You come to "save the NS community", but you aren't willing to compromise. Admins are nubs for blocking scripts, so you expect everyone to change it, then you say it only automates simple things, then why must it be enabled in order for you to play there?
<!--QuoteBegin-..tim..+Nov 9 2004, 02:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (..tim.. @ Nov 9 2004, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Note: THis is not directed at all clanners/vets, in fact, most of the competitive members I play with are generally good teammates. But arrogance of a few can ruin the reputation of many. You come to "save the NS community", but you aren't willing to compromise. Admins are nubs for blocking scripts, so you expect everyone to change it, then you say it only automates simple things, then why must it be enabled in order for you to play there? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What do you mean by compromise? Not ramboing? Well, sometimes ramboing is what really helps a team. If a marine can go off on his own and hold a crucial area of the map by himself, it frees up a lot more resources (marines) to take other parts of the map. This game is hugely dependent on controlling the maps, which in turns results in flow of res. Yes there are some dumb rambos out there, people with vet icons who don't know squat about the game, clanners likewise, so how are we to compromise on that aspect, we can't change them. We probably tried to talk to them about it at some point but it seems like they are just as ignorant which falls into what we are talking about, those who remain ignorant.
Perhap's you're talking about arrogance and attitudes that needs compromising, we can't do anything about that either. It's up to those players as you have said, I don't blame you for not listening to **** who keep shouting that you suck, learn to aim, hell i wouldn't listen to that **** either. But a lot of times, I've seen experienced players patiently trying to explain and educate, but is retorted with ignorance and hatred.
Or compromising about blockscripts, we're not asking for blockscripts to be removed. If servers feel safter with it on, more power to them. But we are trying to educate admins and regular players on what scripts really do! Because a lot of them don't know what they do and it hurts more players than it helps! Especially with the new patch coming up that kills _special scripts, which is usually the source of abusive scripts.
<!--QuoteBegin-Redford+Nov 9 2004, 02:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Redford @ Nov 9 2004, 02:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ...If the pubber community hates you, it is directly though your actions towards them, either indirectly through using scripts... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yet another major problem with the current NS community.
<!--QuoteBegin-SpaceJesus+Nov 9 2004, 02:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SpaceJesus @ Nov 9 2004, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Redford+Nov 9 2004, 02:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Redford @ Nov 9 2004, 02:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ...If the pubber community hates you, it is directly though your actions towards them, either indirectly through using scripts... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yet another major problem with the current NS community. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I've seen a lot of hate directed at clanners or vets just because they were clanners or vets. Perhaps yeah they used scripts, so using scripts deserves hating? As Space Jesus said, that's the totally wrong attitude that needs to be fixed in this community. If someone uses scripts, should you hate them? No. If someone uses hacks should you hate them? Sure! Does script = hacks? No.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+Nov 9 2004, 01:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Nov 9 2004, 01:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-taft+Nov 9 2004, 12:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taft @ Nov 9 2004, 12:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> hey dude go read your first post and subsequent posts after that
you've pointed out many great examples like the idea that pubbers don't listen to the evidence about why scripting isn't cheating, that pubbers seem to shut themselves off from the reality of competitive NS gameplay and strategies, that they can't seem to understand that good players don't use third party programs that play the game for them, et cetera.
i'm not sure how this entire thread doesn't ultimately boil down to a pubber vs clanner issue or why you are making frowny faces at my post <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have to do homework so this has to be quick I can make a bigger reply later....
It's not a pubber vs clanner thing and I'm sorry for using the term pubber. I should've said 'community'. Usually it's the whole community who support each other in their wrong viewpoints, and reject anything but their own view of the world. (see the marineshideout.URLHERE link)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
alright so terming these community frequenters as "pubbers" is a great overgeneralization on my part I guess, so i'm going to agree with that and drop it as confusion between us both
however, this thread still stands for all the wrong things and issues that don't even matter.. if you believe that individuals such as new players to the game are directly influenced by these communities to hate things like scripting and ramboing and stuff, then you are not thinking very hard and you are not giving these individuals very much credit
it's impossible to shove a bunch of information up a player's eye socket and expect them to read it.. they need to want to read it, they need to want to know what the deal is and a lot of sensible players will
and hey if you want advice on getting new and existing players to show interest in NS, there's a much better method instead of creating threads of "enlightenment" for people and that's
<b>playing</b>..
in our competitive leagues, in the pugs, and especially in the pubs.. let us show them our ideas, gameplay, and strategies which they might enjoy, adapt, and acknowledge.. we in competitive were all inspired by existing clans and veterans, right? and like I said earlier, if you get banned move on
--
titanium has pointed out the <u>real</u> issues that NS faces a few pages ago and I suggest you relook them in favor of trying to enlighten communities of pubbers who are guaranteed to never share your viewpoints, even if awareness is raised because they will decide what they'd like to get out of NS
and please, stop making the rest of us look bad by imposing shallow remarks like, "winning is the only way to have fun" on others.. it's really making us veterans look like outstanding tards some pubbers take us for and only refueling an unquenchable fire higher
<!--QuoteBegin-taft+Nov 9 2004, 02:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taft @ Nov 9 2004, 02:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> it's impossible to shove a bunch of information up a player's eye socket and expect them to read it.. they need to want to read it, they need to want to know what the deal is and a lot of sensible players <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Taft, I'm sorry to say but it's not impossible at all, in fact it's been happening. Lets say someone new joins this mod, checking it out and begins to play it. Logically, the #naturalselection channel is the place to go since it's the official NS channel. Well, in the past I've seen quite a few conversations on that channel where there were many sob stories about how 'Oh, I just came from this pubs and there were these horrible scripters! They need to use pistol scripts to kill and scripts to bunny hop! Why can't they get REAL skill and learn to aim, stuff like that!' Then you have more people in that channel, some ops, some peons, but a bunch joining in on the sob fest, patting that guy on the back going 'Yeah you're right, this game is ruined by scriptors!'
Guess what, a new player who just joined who are sensible will listen to those who are apparently 'respected' in the official NS channel. They won't listen to the clanners and others who are banned outright, like Forlorn, who try to disagree and present with explanations on why their point of view is wrong. And yes, Forlorn is autobanned from NS's official channel with the message "You're not welcomed here." Great community we have here, great example we are setting here.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and hey if you want advice on getting new and existing players to show interest in NS, there's a much better method instead of creating threads of "enlightenment" for people and that's <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like what? Nothing is being done, this has been brought up before, ignored. We can't voice our explanations in the #ns channel, or maybe we'll be banned like Forlorn, or kicked like 'Know-it-all Adj'.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->willtitanium has pointed out the <u>real</u> issues that NS faces a few pages ago and I suggest you relook them in favor of trying to enlighten communities of pubbers who are guaranteed to never share your viewpoints, even if awareness is raised because they will decide what they'd like to get out of NS <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Titanium put out a lot of valid issues I agree, but I don't agree that those are the only issues. But hey, this is a public discussions forum. Last time I checked, we are allowed to disagree with each other, unless somehow that's against the rules as well now because its the admin's way or the highway.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and please, stop making the rest of us look bad by imposing shallow remarks like, "winning is the only way to have fun" on others.. it's really making us veterans look like outstanding tards some pubbers take us for and only refueling an unquenchable fire higher <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you really feel those statements are shallow, then you haven't really read the explanations that accompanied some of those statements. Don't group yourself as 'us veterans' when you don't know what you are talking about.
13:06 -!- meb was kicked from #naturalselection by ChanServ [(Ari) Troublemaker / griefer]
yeah it's been that way for a long time, and guess what, I shouldn't even be allowed to post here right now, and getting my veteran icon taken away was also all kinds of awesome
now, is it just me or would a potential candidate for competitive NS play be more interested not in the justification of scripts, but instead where he could get his hands on one to be more competitive?
perhaps it's just my opinion, but players that complain and publically condemn scripts know they haven't got a shot at competitive and I just don't see the influence they hold over others to possibly bring the competitive community down, ever
<!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Nov 9 2004, 02:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Nov 9 2004, 02:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and please, stop making the rest of us look bad by imposing shallow remarks like, "winning is the only way to have fun" <b>on others..</b> it's really making us veterans look like outstanding tards some pubbers take us for and only refueling an unquenchable fire higher <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you really feel those statements are shallow, then you haven't really read the explanations that accompanied some of those statements. Don't group yourself as 'us veterans' when you don't know what you are talking about.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> but then again i'm sure you're insurmountably justified about everything that has to do with NS because being competitive is everything to everyone right
Scripts is just one of the various issues at hand that affects the competitive area. Though I say that you don't have to use scripts at all to become competitive, there are many ways to streamline the way you play. Scripts is just one way, mousewheel is another, macros are probably another, multiple key binds to the same thing, etc.
Now, A are the people who dislike scripts. B are the people who have just joined, who don't really understand scripts enough to like it or dislike it. C are the competitive players, most understand scripts, whether they use it or not.
Now, B will probably be a large amount of the playerbase, while A and C are the much smaller portion. A lot of the times, B are probably not interested in the scripting debates or playing competitively. Some just don't know enough about the game to consider themselves good enough to play competitively. It's true that a portion of C doesn't play in pubs a lot, where A + B populate. Because a portion of C have felt that pubs have deterioated so much that it is more of a bother to pub than to pug/scrim.
Now, A are probably more well known in the community, because they only play on pubs, have more times to play on pubs and create communities which attract more B crowd. Slowly, the A crowd begins to influence the B crowd, saying scripts are bad and such. Emphasizing scripts are the backbone of skilled players, stating stuff like without scripts, people can't be good aliens, aim, etc. Now, lets say a player from group C plays in a pub, a couple from A begins to harrass the C guy who scripts and stuff, prompting a bad reaction from C, can't blame him. Then the As use that as an example of how bad C people are, how scripts are evil, don't listen to C because they don't know the game at all, they only know competitive gaming which is totally different from pubbing, we only want to have fun!!! Now, more of B are being converted to A, script haters, because they have witnessed an instance of A vs C where A seems to be the champions of that pub, saving the day. A population is increased, now the newer members of A who were misinformed about scripts keep spreading misinformation about scripts and clanners from C, converting more friends of theirs or people similar to what they use to be in B. More of B goes into A, more misinformation spreads about C and stuff, less goes into C. A wins, NS dies due to unbalanced games and less attraction due to the death of C.
Now I'm only adding mp_blockscripts into this to back up more of what my theory is. Note, what I said could be completely wrong, but right now with the knowledge that I have gathered through my experience, I feel my portrait is correct, in my mind. I bet a lot would disagree.
Yes, mp_blockscripts was a fix, it was already there and Voogru was told to fix it and he did. But, what mp_blockscript does is gives more ammunition for A, the added accidental inclusion of _special gave A even more ammo. Now, a lot of players in B see mp_bs 1 everywhere, they think to themselves, jeez, scripts really must be bad or else the wouldn't have made mp_bs!! They won't care that mp_bs was already in the game before, just broken, they won't care it was off by default, they only care about the end result that they see.
As a pub player, what I see that ticks me off about the competitive clanners is their attitude. They make some valid points, to be sure, but then they come in with the idea that "anybody who has half a brain who we've managed to educate right would naturally think this way", and have the arrogance to think that opposition to scripting is the product of mere ignorance. This is what is causing the rift in the community, a rift which nobody wants to see be opened wider.
I think what a lot of people need to read is this -
If you don't pay for the server, you don't dictate the rules.
Vote with your feet. Play elsewhere.
Don't start childish threads "naming and shaming" (the hilarity, how dare these people kick me out! DON'T THEY KNOW WHO I AM - a cry oft heard amongst talentless "celebrities") - you're not doing yourself any good, and it just makes the more mature people laugh at you, not with you.
Second - if you want to play on a server, realise that other people have rules and that you ARE subject to them. If you think their rules are "funny", "odd" or "ogm dumb newb r00lz" then you're probably playing on the wrong server. GO ELSEWHERE. Complaining to them will NOT make them change. People do not pay X amount of money per month for the privilege of THEIR server with THEIR rules only to change it when a new player appears.
Moving along nicely... if you find you can't find a server that meets your criteria, then make your own. Find some friends, run a server and share the costs. If your rules are soooo leet and cool and right then you'll have lots of people ready to finance your group server.
If you look at this logically you can see that all those "newbs" will flock to "newb servers" and won't play on the "leet servers" because they're newbs. So you won't get hassled. If however you notice that your server is empty, then is because your rules suck. Noone likes you.
At this point you can either accept that you're wrong, or, you can attempt to defy reality and instead become a griefer who will get systematically banned for being a tard.
If you break the law, you break the law - the police don't let you go because you personally think its a dumb law that stops you groping little children. Servers are not McDonalds, or Burger King, they don't take customer suggestions and since you're not actually PAYING them for product then they're under no obligation to listen to a whiny childish rant. Ranting at a server op about how he should pander to other people rules is on a par with a whiny man throwing a temper tantrum because he got ticketed. You end up as five minutes on some cheap tv clip show and people LAUGH AT YOU.
Realise that revenge threads, name and shame threads, ogm they banned me threads, etc, just make you a five minue clip on America's Dumbest Gamers. You're a joke, and the only one not getting it is you. Everyone else is killing themselves laughing at the futility of trying to impose your pathetic opinion on the masses. People vote with their feet. If servers were dumb, people wouldn't play on them. They would play elsewhere. Why do you think there's empty servers for so many games? Why do you think huge amounts of badly made games lie on shop shelves?
Make your own server, make your own rules. Get "revenge" by banning those noobs who banned you for breaking their rules. It just makes you the very jumped up admin you cariacture and claim to despise. Get over yourselves, understand noone cares about your opinion because you're not paying for any service. Noone is obliged to listen, and frequently noone will.
Welcome to maturity, and adulthood, where you realise your place in the grand scheme of things instand of blubbing like a beached whale in McDonalds because some spotty kid didn't give you the McFatarse special with a Lard shake.
If you don't learn this lesson soon, your lives will be a joke. Don't whine about it, DO something about it. Make your own server and make it an EXAMPLE, and people will flock to your banner. Sit on a forum and whine about how you've been shortchanged and people will just laugh at you for being a newb.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 9 2004, 06:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 9 2004, 06:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Nov 9 2004, 12:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Nov 9 2004, 12:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 9 2004, 10:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 9 2004, 10:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Lightning Blue+Nov 9 2004, 08:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lightning Blue @ Nov 9 2004, 08:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'll poke my head in here cause I am bored and say the no <b>#</b> sign in names is because it messes adminmod/hlds up at times.
Other then that, I am happy people are enjoying thier community. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh that's cool because you never tell anyone who gets banned with the # mark as to why
Furthermore I can't imagine how it would screw things up considering every #cri member has their name spelt with a space first.
" #cri.sano" See the space? You can't start your name with the <b>#</b>, not even steam allows that.
Sounds like a **** poor excuse to perma ban a clan if you ask me
I've been perma banned from the lunixmonster server ever since I just went on with my #cri tag (which I am not longer a part of).
So yeah call whatever whatever but the bottem line is you use bull^^ excuses to perma ban people. (I was also banned from the old lunixmonster server back on the WON system when I lmg'ed some dude named Insane who was fading, he claimed I exploited the models)
Btw #cri is probably 2 times as old as the LM server, last veteran clan and look at the respect you guys give (read: :rolleyes: )
Many many more to go (lunixmonster, voogru, pgc clan, etc. etc.)
The truth spreads eventually, but it takes time... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This original quote goes along nicely with Nadagast's "culture of ignorance"
Your community and server promotes the culture, and untill you guys learn you will always continue to promote it.
Congrats for making this thread Necrosis, I'm sure 100 people have seen it due to the <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84913&view=findpost&p=1323111' target='_blank'>link</a> on the NS forums, and showing an excellent example of why this community is ignorant and needs a change. Your example isn't quite as bad as the other ones but fits the bill nicely.
Much <3 Necrosis, you really helped my causes out!
First off, LB has managed more servers than most in this community. If he says adminmod has a problem with it, <b>admin mod has a problem with it.</b> Spaces, if you didn't know, screw up a lot of things anyway.
Also, many #cri members don't have spaces before their names. Hell, when I've played with you in the kindof-recent past, you didn't either, cause your name lined right up with everyone elses.
I agree that a perma ban for something like that isn't good, but guess what: They weren't! Timeban my friend. You got kicked because you frequently act like an asshat- the same reason most of the people in the community don't like you. I myself have given you lots of chances, and have even fought for you a few times, without you caring much anyway.
While LM is a bit ignorant in this, you yourself have no right to speak as if you are devoid of any sins in that regard. You seem to have the attitude that pubbers simply don't amount to anything- which definately isn't true, as many other clanners can confirm.
Also, one thing I find funny, is how you insult pubbers so blatantly stupidly. You say they don't know how to play the game- sure, telling someone their a res-**** for going fade early definately isn't right, but almost all of the time, there are different ways to play the game, contrary to what you seem to think Forlorn. Hence the reason the pubbers vs. clanners conversation came up- THEY PLAY THE GAME DIFFERENTLY! Thats not to say that either side is correct, but that different styles for different people!
Also, while #cri is older than Lunixmonster, I know for a fact it isn't older than the server itself- the server was the old Nanogridlock, which was up the second available. It was one of the first recognized servers, and frankly, would have been up even earlier being it was hosted by the first clan(eh, group more than competitive) for NS, Evolutionarily Challenged. And Lunixmonster itself came not long after anyway, because of some infighting in said clan.
Don't bash for getting banned. If they were permabanned, it was because they were being asshats- hence why there are a few #cri members still playing on Lunixmonster every once in a while. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You are niave if you believe this.
1. Why doesn't the rules state that # screws up the plugins instead of no advirtising? I mean I'd still get kicked for www.google.com or whatever so it doens't make sense.
2. There are no #cri members that play there from time to time. Sano and MrGunner just decided to go there and see what happens, and somehow I do not think they were surprised.
3. No one was ever being an asshat. When I was banned, the most insulting thing I did was ask 'why', not that I actually cared.
4. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->While LM is a bit ignorant in this, you yourself have no right to speak as if you are devoid of any sins in that regard. You seem to have the attitude that pubbers simply don't amount to anything- which definately isn't true, as many other clanners can confirm.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Prove that.
5. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, while #cri is older than Lunixmonster, I know for a fact it isn't older than the server itself- the server was the old Nanogridlock, which was up the second available. It was one of the first recognized servers, and frankly, would have been up even earlier being it was hosted by the first clan(eh, group more than competitive) for NS, Evolutionarily Challenged. And Lunixmonster itself came not long after anyway, because of some infighting in said clan.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Small history, everyone played on the nanogridlock from what I hear, when it became the lunixmonster it became the monster culture of ignorance back in 2.0, and slowly got a bit bitter but still remains a bit wrong today.
6. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but that different styles for different people!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This isn't something of "understanding" or being "considerate". We all play the same game and there are definately most efficient ways to play it. When I play other games and some clanner gives me some advice I tell him "Okay, I'll give it a try." Now why can't these people give it a try? It's just a game! You should try everything, right? (read: I-g-n-o-r-a-n-c-e)
Pubbers hump it and dump it half the time, you cannot rely on that to keep a game alive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I concur.
<!--QuoteBegin-john_sheu+Nov 9 2004, 02:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (john_sheu @ Nov 9 2004, 02:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As a pub player, what I see that ticks me off about the competitive clanners is their attitude. They make some valid points, to be sure, but then they come in with the idea that "anybody who has half a brain who we've managed to educate right would naturally think this way", and have the arrogance to think that opposition to scripting is the product of mere ignorance. This is what is causing the rift in the community, a rift which nobody wants to see be opened wider.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree with John Sheu in that many clan folks attitudes are holier-than-thou and I'll remember that a lot longer than the ones with a good or indifferent attitude.
I feel that someone using scripts or macro programs gives an unfair advantage to those who don't.
That said, I also feel that using scripts shows a lack of skill in whatever you're using the script for.
But, my opinion probably means less to Clanners/veterans because I only play on public servers and am not part of a clan, right?
The best solution is to play another game. What you desribe will never happen. Ever. Pub players rarely pull their head out of their arse, much less server <s>gods</s> admins. Ignorence and stupidity are at all time highs amongst the little community pubbers.
My solution to you: <span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>Just Quit.</span>
<!--QuoteBegin-Guardian[KILLinc.com+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Guardian[KILLinc.com)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->,Nov 9 2004, 04:47 PM] <!--QuoteBegin-john_sheu+Nov 9 2004, 02:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (john_sheu @ Nov 9 2004, 02:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As a pub player, what I see that ticks me off about the competitive clanners is their attitude. They make some valid points, to be sure, but then they come in with the idea that "anybody who has half a brain who we've managed to educate right would naturally think this way", and have the arrogance to think that opposition to scripting is the product of mere ignorance. This is what is causing the rift in the community, a rift which nobody wants to see be opened wider.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree with John Sheu in that many clan folks attitudes are holier-than-thou and I'll remember that a lot longer than the ones with a good or indifferent attitude.
I feel that someone using scripts or macro programs gives an unfair advantage to those who don't.
That said, I also feel that using scripts shows a lack of skill in whatever you're using the script for.
But, my opinion probably means less to Clanners/veterans because I only play on public servers and am not part of a clan, right? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your opinion doesn't matter any less just because you're a pubber and not part of the competitive scene, its just as important since you represent a good amount of people that has the same opinion as you do. The point of this thread, though probably totally misinterpreted now through all these posts, the ultimate goal is to bring the two community closer together. So that stuff like scripts and macros, as you point out, can be discussed and both sides get a clear view on what they are.
Now, my feel on scripts and macros are different then yours. Advantage is an interesting word to use because it depends on how you describe it. Does it give you an advantage in skill if you use a script. I don't believe so. Does it help streamline the game and gives you an easier, relaxed time to play the game? Yes it does.
Take the pistol script for example. Now, the Devs made a Rate of Fire cap on the pistol because I believe back in the old days, the pistol was able to fire as fast as the script made it, so you get instant kills. Now, lets say Player A is able to fire his pistol at just a little below the RoF cap. If he adds on a pistol script, he won't be shooting 2x as fast as before, in fact, he shoots just as fast. It's hard to believe but it is true, like the pistol script I use, it shoots when I click, it shoots when I release. So for Player A, he shoots when he clicks, but since he is use to clicking really fast, when he releases the pistol doesn't shoot. The reason? Pistol's Rate of Fire is capped, he fired too fast, the pistol doesn't shoot. So the next time he shoots is when he clicks again, basically eliminating the pistol script. Now, I choose to use the pistol script because I prefer to click slower and not destroy my mouse which I feel costs a good deal of money to me. If they get rid of scripts all together, will my skills die? I don't think so, but I do believe my mouse will.
Edit: Something I felt I should add. Accompanying the pistol script issue, the question that should arise is, "Is the current Rate of Fire for the pistol fair?" Well, that's one the devs have to decide, because ultimately, how 'abusive' a pistol script can be reflects on the pistol's rate of fire, not the script.
<!--QuoteBegin-Guardian[KILLinc.com]+Nov 9 2004, 04:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Guardian[KILLinc.com] @ Nov 9 2004, 04:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-john_sheu+Nov 9 2004, 02:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (john_sheu @ Nov 9 2004, 02:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As a pub player, what I see that ticks me off about the competitive clanners is their attitude. They make some valid points, to be sure, but then they come in with the idea that "anybody who has half a brain who we've managed to educate right would naturally think this way", and have the arrogance to think that opposition to scripting is the product of mere ignorance. This is what is causing the rift in the community, a rift which nobody wants to see be opened wider.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree with John Sheu in that many clan folks attitudes are holier-than-thou and I'll remember that a lot longer than the ones with a good or indifferent attitude.
I feel that someone using scripts or macro programs gives an unfair advantage to those who don't.
That said, I also feel that using scripts shows a lack of skill in whatever you're using the script for.
But, my opinion probably means less to Clanners/veterans because I only play on public servers and am not part of a clan, right? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I disagree 100%, I've been everywhere in this community and as you can judge by the fact that I am a clanner the clan community is much (much much much) more inviting than the "A" elite community.
There have been many players like myself, I remember back in 1.00 I knew nothing, I joined a clan.
I was with Talesin, yes he was in that clan. As you can see we both went very different paths.
I left NS during 1.04, it was too unbalanced for my tastes. Meanwhile my clan that I was with died and a bunch of other players left as well.
Talesin stuck around; I must have hung around on the mIRC channels and became a moderator. When I found out that he became a mod 1 month before the release of 2.00, I was pretty impressed with Talesin and wanted to become a moderator myself at the time. Of course, with the release of 2.00 I met crio at the 2.00 lan party release, met #cri.ogenics and joined #cri. I learned a crapload about the NS community in a matter of weeks from #cri, about it's clans and about why NS seemed to be so damn slow.
Just by wearing a simple #cri tag I noticed immediate hostility towards myself. I never had this kind of drama before, to myself the rational individual I had no idea why these people were so emotional. It didn't help that #cri back then was notorious (and would grow more notorous as 2.01 went on)
Looking back now I'm 100% sure you could take anyone, it does not matter who you are but just place yourself back in that clan scene and you will hit the same change I and many many others did. The only thing that was different between me and everyone else was that I was <b>vocal</b> about it.
Finally about a year later others are now vocal to some extent as well... I don't know why this is but I do know I was one of the first who became fed up with it.
Becoming a clanner in any game enlightens you a lot about many things. You may think, "OH em Gee" that's elitist how can u say clanners are alwasy righ!!?
I'm not saying they are always right, but know a hell of a lot more than other people do. If you do not believe me, just join a clan. Notice you never see clanners disagree with each other much on this issue, all you need to do is join a clan and things make sense.
<!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Nov 9 2004, 04:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Nov 9 2004, 04:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you break the law, you break the law - the police don't let you go because you personally think its a dumb law that stops you groping little children. Servers are not McDonalds, or Burger King, they don't take customer suggestions and since you're not actually PAYING them for product then they're under no obligation to listen to a whiny childish rant. Ranting at a server op about how he should pander to other people rules is on a par with a whiny man throwing a temper tantrum because he got ticketed. You end up as five minutes on some cheap tv clip show and people LAUGH AT YOU.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, on LM, we had a complete defining of our rules, and LB didn't sit in a room and make them up. The admin staff and LB came to the regs for input on exactly what should be allowed or not concerning spawncamping and other things. so, if you are active in a community, then sometimes your input is valid, although in the end it's up to Lightning_Blue to make the final decision (like using the aye-emm-exx mod <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->). I found the end result for the rules of the server acceptable. Did I agree with every, single point? No. But was I satisfied that my concerns were taken into account? Yes. LM has changed as a community over the past few months, and I think for the better, unruly admins have been dealt with, there is a system in place to alert and admin when needed, and warnings and other measures are taken to inform someone before any action is given.
I say that to say this, if LM or other communities are still an issue woth you OTHER than mp_bs 1, then come back by, give them a shot, and see if, although they aren't CAL or ns-pug, they are competent, enjoyable games. The original post was made to help understand each side and maybe grow closer, find, middle ground, so we humble pubbers invite you to our community.
I really think if that scripting forum, or sub group of custom needs to be added with an EXTENSIVE overview, background, info + facts about scripting. There is a thread on that topic here<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84601&hl=' target='_blank'>Showtopic</a> along with many players who are willing to manage it. Many players, (new & expirenced) public play wise, don't even understand what a script does...I know this has been mentioned many times before but, I myself have come across players who actually think scripts are third party programs that enhance gameplay or are something along those lines...
What I'm trying to get at is that Clanners//Vets//whatever get associated with scripting. and since scripting is bare hacks... Clanners//Vets//whatever = not allowed.
Originally I didn't like LM because of mp_bs 1. I still play on servers that run blockscripts, and it's not really any harder to kill boatloads of players with no scripts, so I figure why not try to play there anyway as there seems to be a steady amount of players. Then I was told that I couldn't have <#nspug> in my name, which although I like to support Nspug, I agreed with the rule no matter how silly. Then I was brought to remember why I don't play there regularly : because I dislike most all the admins. I was told to take the "#" off my tag, or to leave the server. I tried to argue the point but they made it clear that their inane rule held some importance, so I said I'd leave right after the round. Then Sano and I both got banned out of the blue. This is why I don't like to play on community servers. I have no problems whatsoever with pub servers unless they are community servers, with the exception of Chem-X.
<!--QuoteBegin-taft+Nov 9 2004, 02:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taft @ Nov 9 2004, 02:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 13:06 -!- meb was kicked from #naturalselection by ChanServ [(Ari) Troublemaker / griefer]
yeah it's been that way for a long time, and guess what, I shouldn't even be allowed to post here right now, and getting my veteran icon taken away was also all kinds of awesome
now, is it just me or would a potential candidate for competitive NS play be more interested not in the justification of scripts, but instead where he could get his hands on one to be more competitive?
perhaps it's just my opinion, but players that complain and publically condemn scripts know they haven't got a shot at competitive and I just don't see the influence they hold over others to possibly bring the competitive community down, ever <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> meb@unbanned?!?!?
At the end of the day, you all continue to play this game. To quote the great Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, "Stop whining!"
<!--QuoteBegin-rennex+Nov 9 2004, 05:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rennex @ Nov 9 2004, 05:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-taft+Nov 9 2004, 02:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taft @ Nov 9 2004, 02:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 13:06 -!- meb was kicked from #naturalselection by ChanServ [(Ari) Troublemaker / griefer]
yeah it's been that way for a long time, and guess what, I shouldn't even be allowed to post here right now, and getting my veteran icon taken away was also all kinds of awesome
now, is it just me or would a potential candidate for competitive NS play be more interested not in the justification of scripts, but instead where he could get his hands on one to be more competitive?
perhaps it's just my opinion, but players that complain and publically condemn scripts know they haven't got a shot at competitive and I just don't see the influence they hold over others to possibly bring the competitive community down, ever <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> meb@unbanned?!?!? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> meb@rebanned once a mod reads this thread <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
It's only a game, its only a game.....
Join a sport's team, go out with your mates, join a gym
<!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As my name indicates, I come from G4B2S. I'm not here to debate that much, you've all done such lovely jobs of that yourselves. I'd just like to say that yes, G4B2S caters to the general public. We have always done so and always will.
Many people here are saying that the general public are largely ignorant, so perhaps you can say we cater to the ignorant <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> It just so happens that the 'ignorant' masses enjoy playing with mp_blockscripts on, and while that doesn't make us anti-clan, at times you'll see that behavior manifest due to any normal pubber vs clanner encounter.
Also is the myth that public servers offer inferior teamwork/gameplay. I can't deny this, of course, but the severity some of the people here describe seems ludicrious. Turret farms are a passion for some, yes, but I think you'll find an equal amount of commanders which prefer a decent handful of upgrades. There is a large reg base out there which continually fills in the critical role gaps.
I think Fantasmo said it best, we need each other. So why the hatin' <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Skill had nothing to do with this, so I think you better find some more n00bs to critizise.
Also, unless you want to suggest somthing like AL NUBS NED TO GO TWO BEWT CAMP AND JOIN A CLAN TO PLAY NS LOL, regardless of any points you may or may not have made, making them is pointless. If the pubber community hates you, it is directly though your actions towards them, either indirectly through using scripts, or directly through in-game interaction. So therefore if you are infact correct, then you have nothing but yourself to blame. Perhaps if you started treating the general pubber a little better and were not so arrogant all the time, they would be nicer to you for allowing them to play NS how they see fit.
Let's face it. Fades have the most fun nowadays, and it just might seem unfair that the same person gets to have all the fun eveyr single round while others stay gorge, drop the hive, DCs, etc. Obviously for example if you Fade every round the team might habr the highest chance of winning, but sometimes the team would rather have a slightly less chance at winning than have the exact same roles every time.
If the rest of team asks you nicely to go gorge instead of Fading, you might want to do so if you've already been the primary Fade the previous few rounds.
Let others have a shot at glory sometimes.
Generalisation alert.
Failure to discuss the point of the topic.
[Edit] Cheap rhetorical tricks to make arguements seem less valid.
<!--QuoteBegin-Lunix Monster's Rules+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lunix Monster's Rules)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
9. No advertising.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To my knowledge, advertising doesn't mean having a # in your name. It involves promoting some sort of product or in this case a channel. If my name was #cri.sano <#nslearn>, then yes, I would be advertising for #nslearn, Gunner had that and he was asked to change that, perfectly understandable. If I was going around shouting, "Go to #nslearn! You can pick up quite a few things there!" Then yes, that would be against the rules and I should be banned.
Now, #cri.sano, the #cri is NOT advertising. It would be the same as banning me for having [Blizzard]Sano or [McDonalds]Sano as my clan tag, because that's like advertising for the company. Wearing my clan tag #cri is something I do out of respect for my clan and its history, respect for the players in my clan, respect and a sense of accomplishment of what my clan has achieved, for better or for worse. To ask me to change my clan tag isn't because of advertisement, it's like an insult to my clan, and to me who is the leader of the clan. It's like asking the Green Bay Packers to drop Green Bay, it's an insult to the the place they represent, to the team itself, etc. That's why we were talking about it. And is there a rule against talking about why a rule is a bad rule? Nope, not that I have read. So we were banned for an unwritten rule. I respected the server admin enough to remove the # from my tag, Gunner said he is leaving very shortly. So I played by the rules, Gunner was leaving as you suggested in your post, but the admin or owner still banned us. I think the banning is more than breaking the rules, a rule that wasn't even written.
Let's face it. Fades have the most fun nowadays, and it just might seem unfair that the same person gets to have all the fun eveyr single round while others stay gorge, drop the hive, DCs, etc. Obviously for example if you Fade every round the team might habr the highest chance of winning, but sometimes the team would rather have a slightly less chance at winning than have the exact same roles every time.
If the rest of team asks you nicely to go gorge instead of Fading, you might want to do so if you've already been the primary Fade the previous few rounds.
<i>Let others have a shot at glory sometimes.</i> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this echoes alot of how I feel sometimes. There is a post of a demo on LM.org forums that made of a somewhat "epic" game on hera. Yes, I am not the best skulk (<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->), but the main reason I liked that game, in retrospect, is the fact there wasn't that one uber fade to save the day for us. It was harder, but it was great fun. Had we lost that game, I would have still had a great time.
The problem I encounter with certain clanners/vets, not all of them, is that when they join a team, any chance of versatile tactics go out the window. He'll fade, she'll lerk, they'll gorge, and NSPlayer will save 80 res and leave. As marine, he';ll either comm, and yell at how bad of a shot I am, or rambo and expect m to medspam him to victory when the rest of the team is at the WP I placed for him to go...
Note: THis is not directed at all clanners/vets, in fact, most of the competitive members I play with are generally good teammates. But arrogance of a few can ruin the reputation of many. You come to "save the NS community", but you aren't willing to compromise. Admins are nubs for blocking scripts, so you expect everyone to change it, then you say it only automates simple things, then why must it be enabled in order for you to play there?
What do you mean by compromise? Not ramboing? Well, sometimes ramboing is what really helps a team. If a marine can go off on his own and hold a crucial area of the map by himself, it frees up a lot more resources (marines) to take other parts of the map. This game is hugely dependent on controlling the maps, which in turns results in flow of res. Yes there are some dumb rambos out there, people with vet icons who don't know squat about the game, clanners likewise, so how are we to compromise on that aspect, we can't change them. We probably tried to talk to them about it at some point but it seems like they are just as ignorant which falls into what we are talking about, those who remain ignorant.
Perhap's you're talking about arrogance and attitudes that needs compromising, we can't do anything about that either. It's up to those players as you have said, I don't blame you for not listening to **** who keep shouting that you suck, learn to aim, hell i wouldn't listen to that **** either. But a lot of times, I've seen experienced players patiently trying to explain and educate, but is retorted with ignorance and hatred.
Or compromising about blockscripts, we're not asking for blockscripts to be removed. If servers feel safter with it on, more power to them. But we are trying to educate admins and regular players on what scripts really do! Because a lot of them don't know what they do and it hurts more players than it helps! Especially with the new patch coming up that kills _special scripts, which is usually the source of abusive scripts.
Yet another major problem with the current NS community.
Yet another major problem with the current NS community. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've seen a lot of hate directed at clanners or vets just because they were clanners or vets. Perhaps yeah they used scripts, so using scripts deserves hating? As Space Jesus said, that's the totally wrong attitude that needs to be fixed in this community. If someone uses scripts, should you hate them? No. If someone uses hacks should you hate them? Sure! Does script = hacks? No.
you've pointed out many great examples like the idea that pubbers don't listen to the evidence about why scripting isn't cheating, that pubbers seem to shut themselves off from the reality of competitive NS gameplay and strategies, that they can't seem to understand that good players don't use third party programs that play the game for them, et cetera.
i'm not sure how this entire thread doesn't ultimately boil down to a pubber vs clanner issue or why you are making frowny faces at my post <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have to do homework so this has to be quick I can make a bigger reply later....
It's not a pubber vs clanner thing and I'm sorry for using the term pubber. I should've said 'community'. Usually it's the whole community who support each other in their wrong viewpoints, and reject anything but their own view of the world. (see the marineshideout.URLHERE link)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
alright so terming these community frequenters as "pubbers" is a great overgeneralization on my part I guess, so i'm going to agree with that and drop it as confusion between us both
however, this thread still stands for all the wrong things and issues that don't even matter.. if you believe that individuals such as new players to the game are directly influenced by these communities to hate things like scripting and ramboing and stuff, then you are not thinking very hard and you are not giving these individuals very much credit
it's impossible to shove a bunch of information up a player's eye socket and expect them to read it.. they need to want to read it, they need to want to know what the deal is and a lot of sensible players will
and hey if you want advice on getting new and existing players to show interest in NS, there's a much better method instead of creating threads of "enlightenment" for people and that's
<b>playing</b>..
in our competitive leagues, in the pugs, and especially in the pubs.. let us show them our ideas, gameplay, and strategies which they might enjoy, adapt, and acknowledge.. we in competitive were all inspired by existing clans and veterans, right? and like I said earlier, if you get banned move on
--
titanium has pointed out the <u>real</u> issues that NS faces a few pages ago and I suggest you relook them in favor of trying to enlighten communities of pubbers who are guaranteed to never share your viewpoints, even if awareness is raised because they will decide what they'd like to get out of NS
and please, stop making the rest of us look bad by imposing shallow remarks like, "winning is the only way to have fun" on others.. it's really making us veterans look like outstanding tards some pubbers take us for and only refueling an unquenchable fire higher
Taft, I'm sorry to say but it's not impossible at all, in fact it's been happening. Lets say someone new joins this mod, checking it out and begins to play it. Logically, the #naturalselection channel is the place to go since it's the official NS channel. Well, in the past I've seen quite a few conversations on that channel where there were many sob stories about how 'Oh, I just came from this pubs and there were these horrible scripters! They need to use pistol scripts to kill and scripts to bunny hop! Why can't they get REAL skill and learn to aim, stuff like that!' Then you have more people in that channel, some ops, some peons, but a bunch joining in on the sob fest, patting that guy on the back going 'Yeah you're right, this game is ruined by scriptors!'
Guess what, a new player who just joined who are sensible will listen to those who are apparently 'respected' in the official NS channel. They won't listen to the clanners and others who are banned outright, like Forlorn, who try to disagree and present with explanations on why their point of view is wrong. And yes, Forlorn is autobanned from NS's official channel with the message "You're not welcomed here." Great community we have here, great example we are setting here.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and hey if you want advice on getting new and existing players to show interest in NS, there's a much better method instead of creating threads of "enlightenment" for people and that's
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like what? Nothing is being done, this has been brought up before, ignored. We can't voice our explanations in the #ns channel, or maybe we'll be banned like Forlorn, or kicked like 'Know-it-all Adj'.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->willtitanium has pointed out the <u>real</u> issues that NS faces a few pages ago and I suggest you relook them in favor of trying to enlighten communities of pubbers who are guaranteed to never share your viewpoints, even if awareness is raised because they will decide what they'd like to get out of NS
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Titanium put out a lot of valid issues I agree, but I don't agree that those are the only issues. But hey, this is a public discussions forum. Last time I checked, we are allowed to disagree with each other, unless somehow that's against the rules as well now because its the admin's way or the highway.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
and please, stop making the rest of us look bad by imposing shallow remarks like, "winning is the only way to have fun" on others.. it's really making us veterans look like outstanding tards some pubbers take us for and only refueling an unquenchable fire higher
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you really feel those statements are shallow, then you haven't really read the explanations that accompanied some of those statements. Don't group yourself as 'us veterans' when you don't know what you are talking about.
yeah it's been that way for a long time, and guess what, I shouldn't even be allowed to post here right now, and getting my veteran icon taken away was also all kinds of awesome
now, is it just me or would a potential candidate for competitive NS play be more interested not in the justification of scripts, but instead where he could get his hands on one to be more competitive?
perhaps it's just my opinion, but players that complain and publically condemn scripts know they haven't got a shot at competitive and I just don't see the influence they hold over others to possibly bring the competitive community down, ever
and please, stop making the rest of us look bad by imposing shallow remarks like, "winning is the only way to have fun" <b>on others..</b> it's really making us veterans look like outstanding tards some pubbers take us for and only refueling an unquenchable fire higher
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you really feel those statements are shallow, then you haven't really read the explanations that accompanied some of those statements. Don't group yourself as 'us veterans' when you don't know what you are talking about.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
but then again i'm sure you're insurmountably justified about everything that has to do with NS because being competitive is everything to everyone right
Scripts is just one of the various issues at hand that affects the competitive area. Though I say that you don't have to use scripts at all to become competitive, there are many ways to streamline the way you play. Scripts is just one way, mousewheel is another, macros are probably another, multiple key binds to the same thing, etc.
Now, A are the people who dislike scripts. B are the people who have just joined, who don't really understand scripts enough to like it or dislike it. C are the competitive players, most understand scripts, whether they use it or not.
Now, B will probably be a large amount of the playerbase, while A and C are the much smaller portion. A lot of the times, B are probably not interested in the scripting debates or playing competitively. Some just don't know enough about the game to consider themselves good enough to play competitively. It's true that a portion of C doesn't play in pubs a lot, where A + B populate. Because a portion of C have felt that pubs have deterioated so much that it is more of a bother to pub than to pug/scrim.
Now, A are probably more well known in the community, because they only play on pubs, have more times to play on pubs and create communities which attract more B crowd. Slowly, the A crowd begins to influence the B crowd, saying scripts are bad and such. Emphasizing scripts are the backbone of skilled players, stating stuff like without scripts, people can't be good aliens, aim, etc. Now, lets say a player from group C plays in a pub, a couple from A begins to harrass the C guy who scripts and stuff, prompting a bad reaction from C, can't blame him. Then the As use that as an example of how bad C people are, how scripts are evil, don't listen to C because they don't know the game at all, they only know competitive gaming which is totally different from pubbing, we only want to have fun!!! Now, more of B are being converted to A, script haters, because they have witnessed an instance of A vs C where A seems to be the champions of that pub, saving the day. A population is increased, now the newer members of A who were misinformed about scripts keep spreading misinformation about scripts and clanners from C, converting more friends of theirs or people similar to what they use to be in B. More of B goes into A, more misinformation spreads about C and stuff, less goes into C. A wins, NS dies due to unbalanced games and less attraction due to the death of C.
Now I'm only adding mp_blockscripts into this to back up more of what my theory is. Note, what I said could be completely wrong, but right now with the knowledge that I have gathered through my experience, I feel my portrait is correct, in my mind. I bet a lot would disagree.
Yes, mp_blockscripts was a fix, it was already there and Voogru was told to fix it and he did. But, what mp_blockscript does is gives more ammunition for A, the added accidental inclusion of _special gave A even more ammo. Now, a lot of players in B see mp_bs 1 everywhere, they think to themselves, jeez, scripts really must be bad or else the wouldn't have made mp_bs!! They won't care that mp_bs was already in the game before, just broken, they won't care it was off by default, they only care about the end result that they see.
If you don't pay for the server, you don't dictate the rules.
Vote with your feet. Play elsewhere.
Don't start childish threads "naming and shaming" (the hilarity, how dare these people kick me out! DON'T THEY KNOW WHO I AM - a cry oft heard amongst talentless "celebrities") - you're not doing yourself any good, and it just makes the more mature people laugh at you, not with you.
Second - if you want to play on a server, realise that other people have rules and that you ARE subject to them. If you think their rules are "funny", "odd" or "ogm dumb newb r00lz" then you're probably playing on the wrong server. GO ELSEWHERE. Complaining to them will NOT make them change. People do not pay X amount of money per month for the privilege of THEIR server with THEIR rules only to change it when a new player appears.
Moving along nicely... if you find you can't find a server that meets your criteria, then make your own. Find some friends, run a server and share the costs. If your rules are soooo leet and cool and right then you'll have lots of people ready to finance your group server.
If you look at this logically you can see that all those "newbs" will flock to "newb servers" and won't play on the "leet servers" because they're newbs. So you won't get hassled. If however you notice that your server is empty, then is because your rules suck. Noone likes you.
At this point you can either accept that you're wrong, or, you can attempt to defy reality and instead become a griefer who will get systematically banned for being a tard.
If you break the law, you break the law - the police don't let you go because you personally think its a dumb law that stops you groping little children. Servers are not McDonalds, or Burger King, they don't take customer suggestions and since you're not actually PAYING them for product then they're under no obligation to listen to a whiny childish rant. Ranting at a server op about how he should pander to other people rules is on a par with a whiny man throwing a temper tantrum because he got ticketed. You end up as five minutes on some cheap tv clip show and people LAUGH AT YOU.
Realise that revenge threads, name and shame threads, ogm they banned me threads, etc, just make you a five minue clip on America's Dumbest Gamers. You're a joke, and the only one not getting it is you. Everyone else is killing themselves laughing at the futility of trying to impose your pathetic opinion on the masses. People vote with their feet. If servers were dumb, people wouldn't play on them. They would play elsewhere. Why do you think there's empty servers for so many games? Why do you think huge amounts of badly made games lie on shop shelves?
Make your own server, make your own rules. Get "revenge" by banning those noobs who banned you for breaking their rules. It just makes you the very jumped up admin you cariacture and claim to despise. Get over yourselves, understand noone cares about your opinion because you're not paying for any service. Noone is obliged to listen, and frequently noone will.
Welcome to maturity, and adulthood, where you realise your place in the grand scheme of things instand of blubbing like a beached whale in McDonalds because some spotty kid didn't give you the McFatarse special with a Lard shake.
If you don't learn this lesson soon, your lives will be a joke. Don't whine about it, DO something about it. Make your own server and make it an EXAMPLE, and people will flock to your banner. Sit on a forum and whine about how you've been shortchanged and people will just laugh at you for being a newb.
<!--QuoteBegin-Lightning Blue+Nov 9 2004, 08:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lightning Blue @ Nov 9 2004, 08:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'll poke my head in here cause I am bored and say the no <b>#</b> sign in names is because it messes adminmod/hlds up at times.
Other then that, I am happy people are enjoying thier community.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh that's cool because you never tell anyone who gets banned with the # mark as to why
Furthermore I can't imagine how it would screw things up considering every #cri member has their name spelt with a space first.
" #cri.sano"
See the space? You can't start your name with the <b>#</b>, not even steam allows that.
Sounds like a **** poor excuse to perma ban a clan if you ask me
I've been perma banned from the lunixmonster server ever since I just went on with my #cri tag (which I am not longer a part of).
So yeah call whatever whatever but the bottem line is you use bull^^ excuses to perma ban people. (I was also banned from the old lunixmonster server back on the WON system when I lmg'ed some dude named Insane who was fading, he claimed I exploited the models)
Btw #cri is probably 2 times as old as the LM server, last veteran clan and look at the respect you guys give (read: :rolleyes: )
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2 down (NSA, [FAT])
Many many more to go (lunixmonster, voogru, pgc clan, etc. etc.)
The truth spreads eventually, but it takes time... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This original quote goes along nicely with Nadagast's "culture of ignorance"
Your community and server promotes the culture, and untill you guys learn you will always continue to promote it.
Congrats for making this thread Necrosis, I'm sure 100 people have seen it due to the <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84913&view=findpost&p=1323111' target='_blank'>link</a> on the NS forums, and showing an excellent example of why this community is ignorant and needs a change. Your example isn't quite as bad as the other ones but fits the bill nicely.
Much <3 Necrosis, you really helped my causes out!
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Keep embarressing yourself, my friend.
First off, LB has managed more servers than most in this community. If he says adminmod has a problem with it, <b>admin mod has a problem with it.</b> Spaces, if you didn't know, screw up a lot of things anyway.
Also, many #cri members don't have spaces before their names. Hell, when I've played with you in the kindof-recent past, you didn't either, cause your name lined right up with everyone elses.
I agree that a perma ban for something like that isn't good, but guess what: They weren't! Timeban my friend. You got kicked because you frequently act like an asshat- the same reason most of the people in the community don't like you. I myself have given you lots of chances, and have even fought for you a few times, without you caring much anyway.
While LM is a bit ignorant in this, you yourself have no right to speak as if you are devoid of any sins in that regard. You seem to have the attitude that pubbers simply don't amount to anything- which definately isn't true, as many other clanners can confirm.
Also, one thing I find funny, is how you insult pubbers so blatantly stupidly. You say they don't know how to play the game- sure, telling someone their a res-**** for going fade early definately isn't right, but almost all of the time, there are different ways to play the game, contrary to what you seem to think Forlorn. Hence the reason the pubbers vs. clanners conversation came up- THEY PLAY THE GAME DIFFERENTLY! Thats not to say that either side is correct, but that different styles for different people!
Also, while #cri is older than Lunixmonster, I know for a fact it isn't older than the server itself- the server was the old Nanogridlock, which was up the second available. It was one of the first recognized servers, and frankly, would have been up even earlier being it was hosted by the first clan(eh, group more than competitive) for NS, Evolutionarily Challenged. And Lunixmonster itself came not long after anyway, because of some infighting in said clan.
Don't bash for getting banned. If they were permabanned, it was because they were being asshats- hence why there are a few #cri members still playing on Lunixmonster every once in a while. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are niave if you believe this.
1. Why doesn't the rules state that # screws up the plugins instead of no advirtising? I mean I'd still get kicked for www.google.com or whatever so it doens't make sense.
2. There are no #cri members that play there from time to time. Sano and MrGunner just decided to go there and see what happens, and somehow I do not think they were surprised.
3. No one was ever being an asshat. When I was banned, the most insulting thing I did was ask 'why', not that I actually cared.
4. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->While LM is a bit ignorant in this, you yourself have no right to speak as if you are devoid of any sins in that regard. You seem to have the attitude that pubbers simply don't amount to anything- which definately isn't true, as many other clanners can confirm.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Prove that.
5. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, while #cri is older than Lunixmonster, I know for a fact it isn't older than the server itself- the server was the old Nanogridlock, which was up the second available. It was one of the first recognized servers, and frankly, would have been up even earlier being it was hosted by the first clan(eh, group more than competitive) for NS, Evolutionarily Challenged. And Lunixmonster itself came not long after anyway, because of some infighting in said clan.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Small history, everyone played on the nanogridlock from what I hear, when it became the lunixmonster it became the monster culture of ignorance back in 2.0, and slowly got a bit bitter but still remains a bit wrong today.
6. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but that different styles for different people!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This isn't something of "understanding" or being "considerate". We all play the same game and there are definately most efficient ways to play it. When I play other games and some clanner gives me some advice I tell him
"Okay, I'll give it a try."
Now why can't these people give it a try? It's just a game! You should try everything, right? (read: I-g-n-o-r-a-n-c-e)
Pubbers hump it and dump it half the time, you cannot rely on that to keep a game alive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I concur.
I agree with John Sheu in that many clan folks attitudes are holier-than-thou and I'll remember that a lot longer than the ones with a good or indifferent attitude.
I feel that someone using scripts or macro programs gives an unfair advantage to those who don't.
That said, I also feel that using scripts shows a lack of skill in whatever you're using the script for.
But, my opinion probably means less to Clanners/veterans because I only play on public servers and am not part of a clan, right?
My solution to you: <span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>Just Quit.</span>
I agree with John Sheu in that many clan folks attitudes are holier-than-thou and I'll remember that a lot longer than the ones with a good or indifferent attitude.
I feel that someone using scripts or macro programs gives an unfair advantage to those who don't.
That said, I also feel that using scripts shows a lack of skill in whatever you're using the script for.
But, my opinion probably means less to Clanners/veterans because I only play on public servers and am not part of a clan, right? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your opinion doesn't matter any less just because you're a pubber and not part of the competitive scene, its just as important since you represent a good amount of people that has the same opinion as you do. The point of this thread, though probably totally misinterpreted now through all these posts, the ultimate goal is to bring the two community closer together. So that stuff like scripts and macros, as you point out, can be discussed and both sides get a clear view on what they are.
Now, my feel on scripts and macros are different then yours. Advantage is an interesting word to use because it depends on how you describe it. Does it give you an advantage in skill if you use a script. I don't believe so. Does it help streamline the game and gives you an easier, relaxed time to play the game? Yes it does.
Take the pistol script for example. Now, the Devs made a Rate of Fire cap on the pistol because I believe back in the old days, the pistol was able to fire as fast as the script made it, so you get instant kills. Now, lets say Player A is able to fire his pistol at just a little below the RoF cap. If he adds on a pistol script, he won't be shooting 2x as fast as before, in fact, he shoots just as fast. It's hard to believe but it is true, like the pistol script I use, it shoots when I click, it shoots when I release. So for Player A, he shoots when he clicks, but since he is use to clicking really fast, when he releases the pistol doesn't shoot. The reason? Pistol's Rate of Fire is capped, he fired too fast, the pistol doesn't shoot. So the next time he shoots is when he clicks again, basically eliminating the pistol script. Now, I choose to use the pistol script because I prefer to click slower and not destroy my mouse which I feel costs a good deal of money to me. If they get rid of scripts all together, will my skills die? I don't think so, but I do believe my mouse will.
Edit: Something I felt I should add. Accompanying the pistol script issue, the question that should arise is, "Is the current Rate of Fire for the pistol fair?" Well, that's one the devs have to decide, because ultimately, how 'abusive' a pistol script can be reflects on the pistol's rate of fire, not the script.
I agree with John Sheu in that many clan folks attitudes are holier-than-thou and I'll remember that a lot longer than the ones with a good or indifferent attitude.
I feel that someone using scripts or macro programs gives an unfair advantage to those who don't.
That said, I also feel that using scripts shows a lack of skill in whatever you're using the script for.
But, my opinion probably means less to Clanners/veterans because I only play on public servers and am not part of a clan, right? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree 100%, I've been everywhere in this community and as you can judge by the fact that I am a clanner the clan community is much (much much much) more inviting than the "A" elite community.
There have been many players like myself, I remember back in 1.00 I knew nothing, I joined a clan.
I was with Talesin, yes he was in that clan. As you can see we both went very different paths.
I left NS during 1.04, it was too unbalanced for my tastes. Meanwhile my clan that I was with died and a bunch of other players left as well.
Talesin stuck around; I must have hung around on the mIRC channels and became a moderator. When I found out that he became a mod 1 month before the release of 2.00, I was pretty impressed with Talesin and wanted to become a moderator myself at the time. Of course, with the release of 2.00 I met crio at the 2.00 lan party release, met #cri.ogenics and joined #cri. I learned a crapload about the NS community in a matter of weeks from #cri, about it's clans and about why NS seemed to be so damn slow.
Just by wearing a simple #cri tag I noticed immediate hostility towards myself. I never had this kind of drama before, to myself the rational individual I had no idea why these people were so emotional. It didn't help that #cri back then was notorious (and would grow more notorous as 2.01 went on)
Looking back now I'm 100% sure you could take anyone, it does not matter who you are but just place yourself back in that clan scene and you will hit the same change I and many many others did. The only thing that was different between me and everyone else was that I was <b>vocal</b> about it.
Finally about a year later others are now vocal to some extent as well... I don't know why this is but I do know I was one of the first who became fed up with it.
Becoming a clanner in any game enlightens you a lot about many things. You may think, "OH em Gee" that's elitist how can u say clanners are alwasy righ!!?
I'm not saying they are always right, but know a hell of a lot more than other people do. If you do not believe me, just join a clan. Notice you never see clanners disagree with each other much on this issue, all you need to do is join a clan and things make sense.
Actually, on LM, we had a complete defining of our rules, and LB didn't sit in a room and make them up. The admin staff and LB came to the regs for input on exactly what should be allowed or not concerning spawncamping and other things. so, if you are active in a community, then sometimes your input is valid, although in the end it's up to Lightning_Blue to make the final decision (like using the aye-emm-exx mod <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->). I found the end result for the rules of the server acceptable. Did I agree with every, single point? No. But was I satisfied that my concerns were taken into account? Yes. LM has changed as a community over the past few months, and I think for the better, unruly admins have been dealt with, there is a system in place to alert and admin when needed, and warnings and other measures are taken to inform someone before any action is given.
I say that to say this, if LM or other communities are still an issue woth you OTHER than mp_bs 1, then come back by, give them a shot, and see if, although they aren't CAL or ns-pug, they are competent, enjoyable games. The original post was made to help understand each side and maybe grow closer, find, middle ground, so we humble pubbers invite you to our community.
What I'm trying to get at is that Clanners//Vets//whatever get associated with scripting.
and since scripting is bare hacks...
Clanners//Vets//whatever = not allowed.
yeah it's been that way for a long time, and guess what, I shouldn't even be allowed to post here right now, and getting my veteran icon taken away was also all kinds of awesome
now, is it just me or would a potential candidate for competitive NS play be more interested not in the justification of scripts, but instead where he could get his hands on one to be more competitive?
perhaps it's just my opinion, but players that complain and publically condemn scripts know they haven't got a shot at competitive and I just don't see the influence they hold over others to possibly bring the competitive community down, ever <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
meb@unbanned?!?!?
At the end of the day, you all continue to play this game. To quote the great Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, "Stop whining!"
yeah it's been that way for a long time, and guess what, I shouldn't even be allowed to post here right now, and getting my veteran icon taken away was also all kinds of awesome
now, is it just me or would a potential candidate for competitive NS play be more interested not in the justification of scripts, but instead where he could get his hands on one to be more competitive?
perhaps it's just my opinion, but players that complain and publically condemn scripts know they haven't got a shot at competitive and I just don't see the influence they hold over others to possibly bring the competitive community down, ever <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
meb@unbanned?!?!? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
meb@rebanned once a mod reads this thread <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->