I liked the movie mainly because I didn't have huge expectations but it was kind of lame that they didn't even try to explain why neo was connected in real world. Combat scenes were fine, if we look at all the three movies together we have plenty of kung-fu, gun balet and mecha a**-kicking <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Now if 3 things would have been changed, the movie would have roxored so much harder: 1) 01 - Zion, I would have liked to see them somehow connected. The machines controlling Zion somehow or something. Hmmm...
2) Some very bad dialogs Bane: Hello mister Anderson. It's me, Agent smith. I hate you and I want to kill you. Remember me? Neo: Who are you? Wth is going on? I'm **** and yet I was a coder in Matrix. or Trin: I'm so going to die now Neo: Please don't go! Trin: Wait, I think I can still hold on for another 10 mins Crowd: We want to see Neo kicking some a**. DIE B*TC, DIE ALREADY!
3) It would have rocked so hard if Neo would have been a machine. Maybe only partially machine but raised by machines anyway. Explanation for that real world sentinel destroying. Machines made him to do something, to balance the equation?
Well, it was a fine movie anyway. I was hoping for something as spectacular and mindblowing as Matrix1 but meh.
Disclaimer: this is full of spoilers but if you didn't know that then what the hell are you doing in this thread?
I've just finished watching the The Matrix Revolutions. I have to say: the series should have been four movies. Not in the sense that they had so much information to pack into three movies that it could have used a breathing space (perhaps, but I doubt that's the case) but in the sense that the ending seemed extremely rushed.
As for the movie itself... I don't know what to think. It feels like they sat down, looked at each other, and said "Let's just have one hell of a big CG battle, then quickly wrap up the story." The climax of the movie was all wrong. The high point was the adrenaline-soaked fight for the dock. Yes, I loved every minute of that. But... the ending was all wrong. The whole point, I thought, was that the machine city and the final confrontation were what the whole series was supposed to build up towards. The whole "purpose of the One". In the second movie, the anticipation leading up to Neo entering the Architect's room was tangible. I had the feeling of "holy s***, this is it. This is the moment we've all been waiting for. Neo doing what he came to do, and laying some allmighty smackdown on the machines." Reloaded, however, teased us by cutting it short.
That's why I'm so annoyed about the ending of the third movie. I didn't WANT to see some uninspiring fistfight between Smith and Neo. Smith wasn't the enemy, he was a complication. For f***'s sake, they explained away the whole war with the single word "peace." God, that's like some naive little kid saying "Oh, it's easy to have world peace. All we have to do is stop fighitng each other. It's that simple." The movies themselves didn't delve into the exact cause of the war in detail (but I imagine the Animatrix did. I haven't seen all of that) but they didn't even ATTEMPT to offer a plausible explanation of it ending.
Since when did the machines find an alternate power source, that they can decide to switch the matrix off? Since when did they lose their will to destroy Zion? According to the Architect, the cycle of rebooting the matrix and destroying Zion had happened several times. The whole enslavement of humanity in the first place had to come from somewhere. And this can all be explained away by the word "peace"? I actually stayed to watch right till the end of the credits, just in case there was anything interesting at the end (there wasn't. Incidentally, I was the last to leave the theatre <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->). Did you know that the face of sentinels that Neo spoke to is identified as "Deus ex Machina"? How ironic.
My problem with the movie is not holes in the storyline. I can think of reasons that stich them together, myself. What I disliked was that the movie deemphasized the complexity of the plot in favour of a long CG firefight. As much as I enjoyed it if I wanted a giant firefight with mechs I'd go play Planetside or something.
The first movie was thought provoking and engaging. The second movie simply tried to capitalise on the first by accentuating the two aspects that made it good - philosopy and awesome fight scenes. The third movie did nothing more than end the tale. No explanations, no final questions, no awesome finale. Just some dumarse nobody likes yelling "the war is over!", everyone saying "yay!", and a pretty sunrise.
What the hell happened to Neo being able to control machines in the real world?! The most widely held theory that I've seen was that Neo himself was a machine. I was expecting the movie to answer this final question, maybe not that way, but somehow. Nothing was REVEALED. I wanted a mind-job, da<span style='font-family:Arial'></span>mnit. There was absolutely nothing surprising about that movie. Nothing. Nothing I didn't anticipate. I knew Bane was Smith (hell, everyone and his pet cat knew Bane was Smith). I knew Smith was the polar opposite of Neo. As soon as the comment was made about Neo and Smith being the two sides of the equation I knew that they'd both end up dying. I knew they couldn't hold the docks, I knew the Hammer would arrive, and I was pretty sure that there wouldn't be a fight in the cathedral. As if those last three points took any intuition.
Neo, WAKE UP. They killed your girlfriend. They enslaved your species. They devestated your planet. The machines did, not just Smith. All you're going to do is die to kill him and everything's ok?
The worst thing is that there was so much POTENTIAL. My understanding is that a lot of people were irritated by the obtuse philosophical aspects of Reloaded. Perhaps Revolutions was designed to compensate. The thing is, the original got the balance right, and that balance should have been maintained.
Ugh. It's the same problem I had with Serial Experiments: Lain; all this foreshadowing, and buildup, and insinuation, and development, and this-is-going-to-be-so-freaking-cool-when-it-finally-happens, and then it deflated like a wet balloon.
If it wasn't so late here, I'd watch the first movie again. I'm VERY disapointed.
---- Additions, after reading the thread:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Neo Vs Oracle Smith.... very good, but didn't impress me as much as the Docks did... like there were good special effects, but both my friends leaned over and whispered "Dragonball Z anyone?"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> and <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why the hell didn't Zion have EMPs set up on the roof?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> My thoughts exactly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The opening was just sad. The fight scene against the guys walking on the ceilings appeared to me to be a rip-off of the bank scene in the first one<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought this scene was dodgy too, but for different reasons. Mostly, the same as why I thought the gun battles in Equilibrium were so stupid <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>(Note: the gun battles were pretty much all I've actually seen of Equilibrium, and I saw them with the sound off)</span>; they were pretty much just standing around and firing at each other. The bank scene rocked so hard because there was motion. There was action. FFS, there was Neo doing a cartwheel, picking up an M16, and gunning down troopers all in one fluid movement.
More ranting: Every single line of the original was quotable. Every single scene was awesome. I can barely remember a line from the last two movies; I can remember nearly every single one of the first. The first one oozed style. The second two were just a blend of sci-fi conventions and action. Yes, they were good movies. But they weren't The Matrix.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Neo died(?, since we don't know if he did die or not) for the people, as well did jesus! His death allowed all the people still trapped in the matrix (sinners?) to be free!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I noticed this too, and I'm not impressed. Stay the hell away from religion, movie makers, especially this part. It's been overused far too many times. It's also not everyone's religion. I choose not to accept the religious explantion behind the movies. Mostly because I dislike religion. My own explanation fits just fine, anyway.
For the record, I had nothing against Trinity's death scene. What p***ed me off was that there was no plausible reason why Neo couldn't save her. Or, for that matter, why he couldn't heal himself. Ok, maybe he's limited somewhat in the real world. But in the matrix? Why the hell didn't he heal himself during the fight with Smith? Why didn't he move faster? He's got the ability to alter his avatar, and to manipulate the world; for God's sake, why didn't he sprout bladed implements, Terminator style?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Especially with the final fight between smith and neo. I got the feeling that it could go on forever. Two immortals fighting until the end of time. We'll need more popcorn.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I wondered about that myself, and briefly entertained the possibility that they would. After all, if they're equally as powerful as each other there's no way that either one of them can win, right? Unless, of course, they both die.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why people hate reloaded and reveloutions...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I liked The Matrix because I love a good mind-job, as the film put it. Same reason I loved Neon Genesis Evangelion. The first movie did it, the second movie promised it, the third movie kicked me in the scrotum. Yes, I can appreciate that the second and third movies were good a good sci-fi tale. Why I'm so frustrated is that the original was better than a simple sci-fi or action tale, and I wanted more of that. There was easily enough content in the film for it to perform as well as the first! I'm annoyed that it wasn't used. Look, in my opinion, the first movie was NOT a sci-fi. Whatever the hell it was, I loved it. I wanted more of it. Yes, the second and third movies were fine as sci-fi; I didn't bloody WANT sci-fi. At the very least, I wanted <i>intelligent</i> sci-fi, and I was denied even that.
I see that the rest of the thread is more of the same, so I will end this (raher lengthy) post here.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Neo, WAKE UP. They killed your girlfriend. They enslaved your species. They devestated your planet. The machines did, not just Smith. All you're going to do is die to kill him and everything's ok?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->´
neo is there to make peace with the machines, and the machines are loosing the matrix to agent smith due to him taking over everything in it... the machines wants the matrix back, and if neo can get them that they get peace, the machines aren't releasing any of the humans nor killing any humans... and thats about as good peace the humans can get... the humans gets to **** and get children, while the machines continues to grow humans...
why would a small japenese man go into a fetish club.
seriously if i were him i would let trinity and morphy poo do the work and hang outside just to be prevented from the penetration that might occur
edit:
another thing imight add after reading the post above and prevoius post. The enemy is Mr. Smith because he took over the matrix Hes the virus he owns the matrix. The Machines dont want him to own it because then he will infect everyone in Earth (machines) as the buddha thing said. So neo and the buddha face struck a deal up to kill smith.
Another thing i disliked Is them popping up to see above the clouds that was stupid
Allright. I'm here to prove <b>once and for all</b> that YES, all three movies were written at once. Revolutions and Reloaded were written before filming on the first even began.
<b>Here's the story</b>: The Wachiowski brothers, two college dropuots come comic book artists were very much into anime/scifi/philosophy. Their friend asked them to come up with a mindblowing story for a coming comic. This is where the writing began. The brothers poured their hearts and souls into making a trilogy that was known as <i>The Matrix</i>. Later, realizing that their story had potential, the brothers took it to Warner Brothers and presented their storyline as a trilogy.
Warner Brothers initially refused their requested 68 million budget, as they were completely unknown and liable to sccrew up hardcore (which would turn out even worse if they had been granted a trilogy). Warner Brothers gave them the rights to about 5 million or so, with which they made the cult-favorite movie <i>Bound</i>. This was released to much admiration. After the movie had run its course, Warner Brothers gave them the chance to realize their dream: The Matrix.
Unfortunately, the $65 million budget was not sufficient to film the entire trilogy: they could only effectively release a third of the storyline until their adeptness as directors was further proved. Now this brings us to an interesting point: The first Matrix movie was a giant commercial success for one reason and one reason alone: It fit the american stereotype as an awesome, action-ey, not-to-deep movie that all could understand. This is the reason why it was so widely loved - it was an Americanized version, if you will, of their original story (it cannot be denied that Reloaded and Revolutions were far more advanced in the cognitive, philosophical, factor). Perhaps this is why it seemed so great to many of you Critic-followers: <i>The Matrix</i> Was made solely for you to like. The first Matrix ended in such a final-ish was, as the Brothers were unsure how it would go over with the American public. They were forced to end the first movie in such a way that it could very well <i>be</i> the end of the series as the forecast for the remaining two stories was uncertain.
Fortunately for the entire series, in the aftermath of the Matrix making Multiple hundreds of millions, Warner Brothers gave the Brothers the chance to make the other two movies in their trilogy. Preparation and training began in 2000 for the final two parts of the story: <i>Reloaded</i> and <i>Revolutions</i>. The "fortunate" part is that the brothers now had complete creative control over their vision - they were not forced to make these movies understoood and loved on a widespread level as they were forced to do for the first movie. No - they were free to actually film what they wanted to film (hence the "Different feel of these two."). This is also the reason why so many liked the first, but not the second and the third: Those who believe this are exactly the demographic who Warner Brothers/The Wachiowski Brothers were trying to hit (read: the dimwitted American ones with a fetish for action and just enough deepness that they don't need to think to understand it.).
Both <i>Reloaded</i> and <i>Revolutions</i> were filmed as a whole movie (along with the game) starting in the year 2001 (or 2002 - I honestly can't remember <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->). Reloaded/Revolutions was split in two (hence the abrupt ending of Matrix Number Two and the abrupt start of Matrix Number Three. The finished products were designated to cboth come out this year - in May and November, respectively.
And now you've seen them. End of (long) story.
What most people who fit into the demographic written above have trouble accepting is the fact that the Brothers had al three written before the first was even released, as this completely voids their entire argument about how "rushed" the sequels were.
<b> Know this story. Understand this story. Remember this story - it's the simple truth.</b>
Clever...They make a movie so me, the slow dimwitted average American, would be hooked on it. Then, they go in a completely new direction I hated in a second movie, and coerce me to see the third one because "Well, I came this far, I mind as well finish it." Absolute genious. As the Rollingstone review said "Thanks for paying...err, playing."
Precisely <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> If they wanted another movie like the first One, they would have made it. A
They quite obviously did not <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
And trust me. They don't give a **** if you saw the second one or the third one, for that matter. Your eighteen dollars is quite insignificant
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
I was shocked when Trinity died.
Because Keanu Reeves actually put a bit of emotion into his acting (ba-dum-psh!)
Serious though, i loved all 3 of the films. I loved the first one from the moment i saw it, because it was a film that used computer-type people without making them all into supah-"elite" hackers, or into really boring people like <i>The Net</i> (come on, that film plain sucked with the way they portrayed anyone on the internet).
I loved the second one, because it went deeper, introduced the whole "Machines with feelings" angle, showed the spreading of Smith, we saw Zion for the first time etc. The second one, in my opinion, was at least as good as the first.
I loved the third one. It tied up all it needed to. The film works, and that Docks scene.... wow. I mean, that has seriously got to go down as one of the best scenes in movie history. Only 2 things annoyed me about the third movie: The Twins weren't in it (THEY'RE NOT DEAD! THEY PHASED!) and the Ending. The film could have ended with the Architect walking away, the Oracle looking over and seeing Seraph and Sati (You HAVE to know that Seraph is still alive. He owns too much), and the camera panning up into the sky. That ending would have been better in my opinion.
I really can't see what's everyone's problem with the last two films. They were perfect. Lets just hope that 20 years down the line they don't make it into a 6/9 film series and mess the whole thing up (*cough*George Lucas*cough*)
I think that they released the two sequels too far apart. They probably make double the money this way, but if they had made the two movies as one "Matrix 2" I believe it would have been recieved better. I will most definately buy the DVD set including all three movies if they release one. A trilogy is <u>one</u> movie divided into three parts, not three movies in the same universe.
The matrix trilogy isn't for the mainstream american audience. That's for damn sure.
It doesn't mean it is a bad movie, in fact. I loved it. It leaves a lot for the imagination about what is and isn't possible. It dives into the philosophic views of Decartes ("I think, therefore I am"). It leaves a general feeling of "what can't humans accomplish?"
It was very deep. I don't know about the rest of you, but it sort of touched me in the manner that war is hell.
There will be a lot of people that don't like it. I don't blame you. Again, this movie isn't for most people.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The enemy is Mr. Smith because he took over the matrix Hes the virus he owns the matrix. The Machines dont want him to own it because then he will infect everyone in Earth (machines) as the buddha thing said. So neo and the buddha face struck a deal up to kill smith<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, I understand what took place. When I said that Smith was just a complication, I meant that the machines turned against humanity before Smith even existed. From the audience's perspective, Smith is just a representative of The System; it's the System which you hate. In the second movie, when they revealed that Smith was unplugged, my first thought was that he'd become an ally.
...
I can't believe that the last two movies were the Wachiowski brothers' ideal, and the first movie was watered down. That doesn't make any sense. Saying that the first movie had everything explained and Americanised doesn't make any sense, either. Not everyone could understand it, in all its detail, without two weeks' worth of working it out. That's what made it so good.
I don't understand how obscurity can be called simplification, and an expensive CG sequence can be called a true vision.
...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and soulskorpion, for the love of god, quit complaining about how you knew everything that was gonna happen...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Zig, I wasn't merely patting myself on the back. My point was that there was nothing surprising in the third movie, whereas there was in the first two. I wasn't suggesting that it should have been harder for me to work out these points, I was trying to say that I wanted more.
Do you honestly think thatb there was much symbolism in the first MAtrix? Did you have to know biblic folklore to understand it? Did you need to be well-versed in philosophy only to catch on to some key phrases and what they might portend? I sure as hell know that this was no necessary for the first. Yes, the whole "OMG! WHAT IS REAL?!" theme pervades the first, but there are absolutely no allusions to other pieces of literatur as well as no foreshadowning of any kind (this wouldn't have worked, as they were unsure if they would ever get to answer these questions that they left open in a sequel).
Otherwise, there was not a whole lot to understand in the first movie. When my mother watched it, SHE even understood it the first time around. If you define the first movie as anything <i>but</i> watered down, you're just too plain jaded and biased to ever understand.
<!--QuoteBegin--Dubbilex+Nov 9 2003, 09:26 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dubbilex @ Nov 9 2003, 09:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Do you honestly think thatb there was much symbolism in the first MAtrix? Did you have to know biblic folklore to understand it? Did you need to be well-versed in philosophy only to catch on to some key phrases and what they might portend? I sure as hell know that this was no necessary for the first. Yes, the whole "OMG! WHAT IS REAL?!" theme pervades the first, but there are absolutely no allusions to other pieces of literatur as well as no foreshadowning of any kind (this wouldn't have worked, as they were unsure if they would ever get to answer these questions that they left open in a sequel).
Otherwise, there was not a whole lot to understand in the first movie. When my mother watched it, SHE even understood it the first time around. If you define the first movie as anything <i>but</i> watered down, you're just too plain jaded and biased to ever understand.
If this is the case, I'm wasting my time here. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's very easy to dismiss something complicated as being very simple once you've understood it, a long time after the fact. We do it all the time, and it doesn't matter what the subject matter is. Yes, the actual course of the events of the orignal movie were not all that hard to follow. But it raised many more questions than merely "What is real? How do you define real?".
Yes, I honestly do think there was that much to get out of the first Matrix movie. There have been articles pages and pages and pages long written on the subject. But this is a moot point anyway - even if you thought the first movie was uncomplicated, the second and third are without question even less complex than it. It's still a step backwards, no matter from where.
I got a question: After Neo made the deal with the important machine, I thought that it meant that the Matrix would still exist, but the people of Zion would be safe. But then later the Architect said everyone would be freed. So it seems to contradict itself. It also sounds like the machines are getting the short end of the stick, and how are they supposed to survive w/o the Matrix (unless the sky becomes uncloudy)?
<!--QuoteBegin--Kage+Nov 6 2003, 05:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kage @ Nov 6 2003, 05:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Did anyone else catch the name of the giant face? It was Deus Ex Machina; my Latin's a bit rusty, but doesn't that mean something like "Created God"? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It means "God from a Machine"
*Edit*
Sorry for such a sparce post that doesn't bring up any new points and resurrects a long dead thread, I just thought I'd insert a useless fact for nobody's convience. Sorry.
<!--QuoteBegin--Renegade+Nov 10 2003, 04:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Renegade @ Nov 10 2003, 04:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sorry for such a sparce post that doesn't bring up any new points and resurrects a long dead thread, I just thought I'd insert a useless fact for nobody's convience. Sorry. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Now THAT is sig mtaerial <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Renegade+Nov 10 2003, 05:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Renegade @ Nov 10 2003, 05:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Kage+Nov 6 2003, 05:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kage @ Nov 6 2003, 05:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Did anyone else catch the name of the giant face? It was Deus Ex Machina; my Latin's a bit rusty, but doesn't that mean something like "Created God"? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It means "God from a Machine"
*Edit*
Sorry for such a sparce post that doesn't bring up any new points and resurrects a long dead thread, I just thought I'd insert a useless fact for nobody's convience. Sorry. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, I know. I realise that's what they meant. At the same time, it was also a contrived plot device which is what the term usually means. Hence the irony <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ok, I saw it on saturday, but this is really the first time I've had a block of time to be on the forums (thank you work.) I kinda skimmed through this thread, and I've seen some misconceptions.
First, read this. <a href='http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/031109matrix.htm' target='_blank'>The Matrix Eplained</a> It's a rather excellently written explaination of this movie. It basically should be required reading for anybody who starts trying to talk about this.
The movie was great. Sure, the whole he's christ thing was done rather heavy handedly, but It did needed to be done so that the average person could actually grasp the concept. Hell, even with how blatent it is people still missed it. Many people here seem to be over estimating the average movie goer, and even the above average movie goer.
And now, to stress this again, read this. NOW **** NOW. <a href='http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/031109matrix.htm' target='_blank'>The Matrix Eplained</a>
Sadly, as an atheist I'm having trouble getting over the stigmatizm that this is a "God" movie. Eh, it'll pass. I think I'll just latch onto the two themes that I really like from it. "Love is just a word" and "Because I choose to".
My favorite fight in this movie was actually the fight between Neo and Smith/Bane. I liked it cause the actor who did Bane did such a good job doing a Hugo Weaving impression, and because it wasn't wire fu. It was just a normal brawl, with neither of them having special powers. I thought it was really well done.
Enough rambling.
<b><span style='font-size:30pt;line-height:100%'>READ THIS NOW.</span></b><a href='http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/031109matrix.htm' target='_blank'>The Matrix Eplained</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--dr.d+Nov 6 2003, 05:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Nov 6 2003, 05:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Trinity had to die otherwise Neo would have never let himself die, and then everyone would have been killed by Smith, if Neo had something to live for he wouldn't have stopped Smith, get it?
Seraph is just a program designed to protect code carriers, I guess the Oracle used to be one of them, and now the little girl is the new one.
Merv (love that nick name) is just a program that traffiks information and smuggles illegal programs, he smuggled the little girl so the Matrix could be restored, without the Matrix Merv has no power, so he wants Smith to fail, and that is why he was so mad at the Oracle for saving Smith.
PS anyone who thought Neo vs. Smith fight sucked shouldn't be watching the Matrix in the first place. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The actual action wasn't all that great.
The setting with the Smiths overlooking from the Windows lit up, and the sky raining, an AWESOME piece of music (anyone know the name of it) and great lighting (not lightining, though that was cool to) made it have the potential, but the acting was, bleh.
<!--QuoteBegin--Infinitum+Nov 7 2003, 09:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Infinitum @ Nov 7 2003, 09:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just realised something....
Neo has the power to explode the machines... Why didn't Neo just stay in Zion and explode the machines... and like... they wouldn't explode like the Sentinel Bombs, they'd zap like the 5 he did at the end of Reloaded....
...
THEN go kick the arse out of the machines... like why would they give a crap about the Matrix if their whole civilization was under threat... priorities people... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Those weren't senitels he was blowing up, I don't think.
Remember when those sentiels DID come, Trinity made a note and said senitels inbound (or something like that), not MORE senitels inbound, implying they were the first ones they came in contact with (the ones that attached to the logos) and when Neo tries to blow them it drains him a whole lot more.
<!--QuoteBegin--dr.d+Nov 7 2003, 05:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Nov 7 2003, 05:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Don't forget the fact that Neo ended up disseminating his code into the Matrix just like he was supposed to, so after everything that happened he still followed his destiny.
The architect however never thought humans and machines could live in peace, he believed humans would always try to destroy them, the Oracle always thought there was hope for peace and I suppose she was aware that after this Reload of the Matrix the equation would be balanced for good and no humans would be free from the Matrix again that's why she used Smith to pose a great enough danger to the Machine God to have it make a promise of peace.
Makes a kind of sense, the enemy of your enemy is your friend. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hearing this actually made me increase my rating of the final matrix. Still not nearly as good as the first or nearly as good as the second, but bearable now.
Anybody else think the battle against bane was a little.. gorey?
They showed a closeup of bane's face after his nose was severed from his face partially, and thought I heard most of the audience shift in their seats.
Ok. So, I was talking to my girlfriend last night, because she had just seen it (Sunday) and I saw it Saturday.
One of her questions was "Why did Trinity have to die?" I came up with a very simple explanation. One part of it was that the Architect told Neo that Trinity was going to die, and he could not stop it. But Neo went through the left-hand door (the one that led to Trinity) because he was in love. When she died (and I thought it was just the right length. It was about 4-6 minutes. Which, considering where she was imapled, is about the right amount of time) Neo lost everything worth living for. If anyone read <i>Dune/Dune Messiah/Children of Dune</i> *SPOILER* remember when Cheni dies and Muad'Dib loses his "eyeless vision"? When Trinity died, I felt that for a second Neo was Muad'Dib, watching the one thing that he lived for leave him? Trinity had to die for Neo to be willing to sacrifice himself to Smith. Neo knew that the Deus Ex Machina wouldn't let him get out of the city alive. When he died, the source code of the One was re-inserted into the Matrix, which then let the Deus Ex Machina "reset" the Matrix, thereby wiping out the non-saved data...Smith. It let the Deus Ex Machina reset and wipe out Smith.
Truly, skorpion: I believed that both Reloaded and Revolutions were far more in-depth than the Matrix. No lies. I suppose it's all a matter of opinion...
And regarding the complexity of the first film and being able to label the lack of said complexiity apparent on account of my understanding:
I do not consider myself a very astute, bright person. There are many more who know more than I do. Knowing this, I <i>still</i> fully understood what was happening the first time through. Subsequent viewing have not really taught me a whole lot (perhaps this is because I maybe never understood the first at all? I would say this is unlikely, as I have read the multitudes of synopsi online.).
On the other hand, even after having seen Reloaded nearly 10 times, I still do not understand the meanings and implications (not to mention cultural references) that saturate it. I simply don't. Admittedly, I've only seen Revolutions once as of yet, and my understanding is very limited. I've discussed it with other people, I've thought about it, I've read about it...but yet I know that there is much, much more.
In summation, after seeing the first Matrix, my favorite scene was the lobby scene (of course). When one's favorite scene in a supposedly philosophical movie is the big "climax action scene", what does that say about the movie? Especially since my favorite scene in Reloaded was the Architect scene. To put it short, I have thought much more about the second two mivies that the first, from which I came away saying "OMG! Bulet time rocks!" The second and third movies elicited more of a "<i>whoa</i>!" response.
I have a task for all you who liked the first Matrix the best: Watch it again. Hell, rent reloaded, and watch all three in a day. Trust me - you'll get a much better understanding for the two 'sequels', and will realize the "fake-looking" shortcomings of the first film. Try it.
Thant is all for now. I'll strap on the ol' hip waders and discuss this later tonight <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
Fredom of choice? Uhm... [I think it's the film main issue on how we're being manipulated by soo many factors and choice is really just choosing what affector we're being affected by, hehe.]
Comments
Now if 3 things would have been changed, the movie would have roxored so much harder:
1) 01 - Zion, I would have liked to see them somehow connected. The machines controlling Zion somehow or something. Hmmm...
2) Some very bad dialogs
Bane: Hello mister Anderson. It's me, Agent smith. I hate you and I want to kill you. Remember me?
Neo: Who are you? Wth is going on? I'm **** and yet I was a coder in Matrix.
or
Trin: I'm so going to die now
Neo: Please don't go!
Trin: Wait, I think I can still hold on for another 10 mins
Crowd: We want to see Neo kicking some a**. DIE B*TC, DIE ALREADY!
3) It would have rocked so hard if Neo would have been a machine. Maybe only partially machine but raised by machines anyway. Explanation for that real world sentinel destroying. Machines made him to do something, to balance the equation?
Well, it was a fine movie anyway. I was hoping for something as spectacular and mindblowing as Matrix1 but meh.
I've just finished watching the The Matrix Revolutions. I have to say: the series should have been four movies. Not in the sense that they had so much information to pack into three movies that it could have used a breathing space (perhaps, but I doubt that's the case) but in the sense that the ending seemed extremely rushed.
As for the movie itself... I don't know what to think. It feels like they sat down, looked at each other, and said "Let's just have one hell of a big CG battle, then quickly wrap up the story." The climax of the movie was all wrong. The high point was the adrenaline-soaked fight for the dock. Yes, I loved every minute of that. But... the ending was all wrong. The whole point, I thought, was that the machine city and the final confrontation were what the whole series was supposed to build up towards. The whole "purpose of the One". In the second movie, the anticipation leading up to Neo entering the Architect's room was tangible. I had the feeling of "holy s***, this is it. This is the moment we've all been waiting for. Neo doing what he came to do, and laying some allmighty smackdown on the machines." Reloaded, however, teased us by cutting it short.
That's why I'm so annoyed about the ending of the third movie. I didn't WANT to see some uninspiring fistfight between Smith and Neo. Smith wasn't the enemy, he was a complication. For f***'s sake, they explained away the whole war with the single word "peace." God, that's like some naive little kid saying "Oh, it's easy to have world peace. All we have to do is stop fighitng each other. It's that simple." The movies themselves didn't delve into the exact cause of the war in detail (but I imagine the Animatrix did. I haven't seen all of that) but they didn't even ATTEMPT to offer a plausible explanation of it ending.
Since when did the machines find an alternate power source, that they can decide to switch the matrix off? Since when did they lose their will to destroy Zion? According to the Architect, the cycle of rebooting the matrix and destroying Zion had happened several times. The whole enslavement of humanity in the first place had to come from somewhere. And this can all be explained away by the word "peace"? I actually stayed to watch right till the end of the credits, just in case there was anything interesting at the end (there wasn't. Incidentally, I was the last to leave the theatre <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->). Did you know that the face of sentinels that Neo spoke to is identified as "Deus ex Machina"? How ironic.
My problem with the movie is not holes in the storyline. I can think of reasons that stich them together, myself. What I disliked was that the movie deemphasized the complexity of the plot in favour of a long CG firefight. As much as I enjoyed it if I wanted a giant firefight with mechs I'd go play Planetside or something.
The first movie was thought provoking and engaging. The second movie simply tried to capitalise on the first by accentuating the two aspects that made it good - philosopy and awesome fight scenes. The third movie did nothing more than end the tale. No explanations, no final questions, no awesome finale. Just some dumarse nobody likes yelling "the war is over!", everyone saying "yay!", and a pretty sunrise.
What the hell happened to Neo being able to control machines in the real world?! The most widely held theory that I've seen was that Neo himself was a machine. I was expecting the movie to answer this final question, maybe not that way, but somehow. Nothing was REVEALED. I wanted a mind-job, da<span style='font-family:Arial'></span>mnit. There was absolutely nothing surprising about that movie. Nothing. Nothing I didn't anticipate. I knew Bane was Smith (hell, everyone and his pet cat knew Bane was Smith). I knew Smith was the polar opposite of Neo. As soon as the comment was made about Neo and Smith being the two sides of the equation I knew that they'd both end up dying. I knew they couldn't hold the docks, I knew the Hammer would arrive, and I was pretty sure that there wouldn't be a fight in the cathedral. As if those last three points took any intuition.
Neo, WAKE UP. They killed your girlfriend. They enslaved your species. They devestated your planet. The machines did, not just Smith. All you're going to do is die to kill him and everything's ok?
The worst thing is that there was so much POTENTIAL. My understanding is that a lot of people were irritated by the obtuse philosophical aspects of Reloaded. Perhaps Revolutions was designed to compensate. The thing is, the original got the balance right, and that balance should have been maintained.
Ugh. It's the same problem I had with Serial Experiments: Lain; all this foreshadowing, and buildup, and insinuation, and development, and this-is-going-to-be-so-freaking-cool-when-it-finally-happens, and then it deflated like a wet balloon.
If it wasn't so late here, I'd watch the first movie again. I'm VERY disapointed.
----
Additions, after reading the thread:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Neo Vs Oracle Smith.... very good, but didn't impress me as much as the Docks did... like there were good special effects, but both my friends leaned over and whispered "Dragonball Z anyone?"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why the hell didn't Zion have EMPs set up on the roof?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My thoughts exactly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The opening was just sad. The fight scene against the guys walking on the ceilings appeared to me to be a rip-off of the bank scene in the first one<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought this scene was dodgy too, but for different reasons. Mostly, the same as why I thought the gun battles in Equilibrium were so stupid <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>(Note: the gun battles were pretty much all I've actually seen of Equilibrium, and I saw them with the sound off)</span>; they were pretty much just standing around and firing at each other. The bank scene rocked so hard because there was motion. There was action. FFS, there was Neo doing a cartwheel, picking up an M16, and gunning down troopers all in one fluid movement.
More ranting: Every single line of the original was quotable. Every single scene was awesome. I can barely remember a line from the last two movies; I can remember nearly every single one of the first. The first one oozed style. The second two were just a blend of sci-fi conventions and action. Yes, they were good movies. But they weren't The Matrix.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Neo died(?, since we don't know if he did die or not) for the people, as well did jesus! His death allowed all the people still trapped in the matrix (sinners?) to be free!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I noticed this too, and I'm not impressed. Stay the hell away from religion, movie makers, especially this part. It's been overused far too many times. It's also not everyone's religion. I choose not to accept the religious explantion behind the movies. Mostly because I dislike religion. My own explanation fits just fine, anyway.
For the record, I had nothing against Trinity's death scene. What p***ed me off was that there was no plausible reason why Neo couldn't save her. Or, for that matter, why he couldn't heal himself. Ok, maybe he's limited somewhat in the real world. But in the matrix? Why the hell didn't he heal himself during the fight with Smith? Why didn't he move faster? He's got the ability to alter his avatar, and to manipulate the world; for God's sake, why didn't he sprout bladed implements, Terminator style?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Especially with the final fight between smith and neo. I got the feeling that it could go on forever. Two immortals fighting until the end of time. We'll need more popcorn.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wondered about that myself, and briefly entertained the possibility that they would. After all, if they're equally as powerful as each other there's no way that either one of them can win, right? Unless, of course, they both die.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why people hate reloaded and reveloutions...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I liked The Matrix because I love a good mind-job, as the film put it. Same reason I loved Neon Genesis Evangelion. The first movie did it, the second movie promised it, the third movie kicked me in the scrotum. Yes, I can appreciate that the second and third movies were good a good sci-fi tale. Why I'm so frustrated is that the original was better than a simple sci-fi or action tale, and I wanted more of that. There was easily enough content in the film for it to perform as well as the first! I'm annoyed that it wasn't used. Look, in my opinion, the first movie was NOT a sci-fi. Whatever the hell it was, I loved it. I wanted more of it. Yes, the second and third movies were fine as sci-fi; I didn't bloody WANT sci-fi. At the very least, I wanted <i>intelligent</i> sci-fi, and I was denied even that.
I see that the rest of the thread is more of the same, so I will end this (raher lengthy) post here.
neo is there to make peace with the machines, and the machines are loosing the matrix to agent smith due to him taking over everything in it... the machines wants the matrix back, and if neo can get them that they get peace, the machines aren't releasing any of the humans nor killing any humans... and thats about as good peace the humans can get... the humans gets to **** and get children, while the machines continues to grow humans...
why would a small japenese man go into a fetish club.
seriously if i were him i would let trinity and morphy poo do the work and hang outside just to be prevented from the penetration that might occur
edit:
another thing imight add after reading the post above and prevoius post. The enemy is Mr. Smith because he took over the matrix Hes the virus he owns the matrix. The Machines dont want him to own it because then he will infect everyone in Earth (machines) as the buddha thing said. So neo and the buddha face struck a deal up to kill smith.
Another thing i disliked Is them popping up to see above the clouds that was stupid
<b>Here's the story</b>: The Wachiowski brothers, two college dropuots come comic book artists were very much into anime/scifi/philosophy. Their friend asked them to come up with a mindblowing story for a coming comic. This is where the writing began. The brothers poured their hearts and souls into making a trilogy that was known as <i>The Matrix</i>. Later, realizing that their story had potential, the brothers took it to Warner Brothers and presented their storyline as a trilogy.
Warner Brothers initially refused their requested 68 million budget, as they were completely unknown and liable to sccrew up hardcore (which would turn out even worse if they had been granted a trilogy). Warner Brothers gave them the rights to about 5 million or so, with which they made the cult-favorite movie <i>Bound</i>. This was released to much admiration. After the movie had run its course, Warner Brothers gave them the chance to realize their dream: The Matrix.
Unfortunately, the $65 million budget was not sufficient to film the entire trilogy: they could only effectively release a third of the storyline until their adeptness as directors was further proved. Now this brings us to an interesting point: The first Matrix movie was a giant commercial success for one reason and one reason alone: It fit the american stereotype as an awesome, action-ey, not-to-deep movie that all could understand. This is the reason why it was so widely loved - it was an Americanized version, if you will, of their original story (it cannot be denied that Reloaded and Revolutions were far more advanced in the cognitive, philosophical, factor). Perhaps this is why it seemed so great to many of you Critic-followers: <i>The Matrix</i> Was made solely for you to like. The first Matrix ended in such a final-ish was, as the Brothers were unsure how it would go over with the American public. They were forced to end the first movie in such a way that it could very well <i>be</i> the end of the series as the forecast for the remaining two stories was uncertain.
Fortunately for the entire series, in the aftermath of the Matrix making Multiple hundreds of millions, Warner Brothers gave the Brothers the chance to make the other two movies in their trilogy. Preparation and training began in 2000 for the final two parts of the story: <i>Reloaded</i> and <i>Revolutions</i>. The "fortunate" part is that the brothers now had complete creative control over their vision - they were not forced to make these movies understoood and loved on a widespread level as they were forced to do for the first movie. No - they were free to actually film what they wanted to film (hence the "Different feel of these two."). This is also the reason why so many liked the first, but not the second and the third: Those who believe this are exactly the demographic who Warner Brothers/The Wachiowski Brothers were trying to hit (read: the dimwitted American ones with a fetish for action and just enough deepness that they don't need to think to understand it.).
Both <i>Reloaded</i> and <i>Revolutions</i> were filmed as a whole movie (along with the game) starting in the year 2001 (or 2002 - I honestly can't remember <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->). Reloaded/Revolutions was split in two (hence the abrupt ending of Matrix Number Two and the abrupt start of Matrix Number Three. The finished products were designated to cboth come out this year - in May and November, respectively.
And now you've seen them. End of (long) story.
What most people who fit into the demographic written above have trouble accepting is the fact that the Brothers had al three written before the first was even released, as this completely voids their entire argument about how "rushed" the sequels were.
<b> Know this story. Understand this story. Remember this story - it's the simple truth.</b>
[/MatrixGeekery]
They quite obviously did not <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
And trust me. They don't give a **** if you saw the second one or the third one, for that matter. Your eighteen dollars is quite insignificant
and soulskorpion, for the love of god, quit complaining about how you knew everything that was gonna happen...
because you also complain that neo was too close to jesus and sh*t!!!
WHO THE F*** DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING?? ohhh my god...
they call him "the ONE" "the MESSIAH" and "SAVIOUR"
WTH more do you need in the way of clues!?!!?!
Because Keanu Reeves actually put a bit of emotion into his acting (ba-dum-psh!)
Serious though, i loved all 3 of the films. I loved the first one from the moment i saw it, because it was a film that used computer-type people without making them all into supah-"elite" hackers, or into really boring people like <i>The Net</i> (come on, that film plain sucked with the way they portrayed anyone on the internet).
I loved the second one, because it went deeper, introduced the whole "Machines with feelings" angle, showed the spreading of Smith, we saw Zion for the first time etc. The second one, in my opinion, was at least as good as the first.
I loved the third one. It tied up all it needed to. The film works, and that Docks scene.... wow. I mean, that has seriously got to go down as one of the best scenes in movie history. Only 2 things annoyed me about the third movie: The Twins weren't in it (THEY'RE NOT DEAD! THEY PHASED!) and the Ending. The film could have ended with the Architect walking away, the Oracle looking over and seeing Seraph and Sati (You HAVE to know that Seraph is still alive. He owns too much), and the camera panning up into the sky. That ending would have been better in my opinion.
I really can't see what's everyone's problem with the last two films. They were perfect. Lets just hope that 20 years down the line they don't make it into a 6/9 film series and mess the whole thing up (*cough*George Lucas*cough*)
I will most definately buy the DVD set including all three movies if they release one. A trilogy is <u>one</u> movie divided into three parts, not three movies in the same universe.
It doesn't mean it is a bad movie, in fact. I loved it. It leaves a lot for the imagination about what is and isn't possible. It dives into the philosophic views of Decartes ("I think, therefore I am"). It leaves a general feeling of "what can't humans accomplish?"
It was very deep. I don't know about the rest of you, but it sort of touched me in the manner that war is hell.
There will be a lot of people that don't like it. I don't blame you. Again, this movie isn't for most people.
Yes, I understand what took place. When I said that Smith was just a complication, I meant that the machines turned against humanity before Smith even existed. From the audience's perspective, Smith is just a representative of The System; it's the System which you hate. In the second movie, when they revealed that Smith was unplugged, my first thought was that he'd become an ally.
...
I can't believe that the last two movies were the Wachiowski brothers' ideal, and the first movie was watered down. That doesn't make any sense. Saying that the first movie had everything explained and Americanised doesn't make any sense, either. Not everyone could understand it, in all its detail, without two weeks' worth of working it out. That's what made it so good.
I don't understand how obscurity can be called simplification, and an expensive CG sequence can be called a true vision.
...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and soulskorpion, for the love of god, quit complaining about how you knew everything that was gonna happen...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Zig, I wasn't merely patting myself on the back. My point was that there was nothing surprising in the third movie, whereas there was in the first two. I wasn't suggesting that it should have been harder for me to work out these points, I was trying to say that I wanted more.
Otherwise, there was not a whole lot to understand in the first movie. When my mother watched it, SHE even understood it the first time around. If you define the first movie as anything <i>but</i> watered down, you're just too plain jaded and biased to ever understand.
If this is the case, I'm wasting my time here.
Otherwise, there was not a whole lot to understand in the first movie. When my mother watched it, SHE even understood it the first time around. If you define the first movie as anything <i>but</i> watered down, you're just too plain jaded and biased to ever understand.
If this is the case, I'm wasting my time here. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's very easy to dismiss something complicated as being very simple once you've understood it, a long time after the fact. We do it all the time, and it doesn't matter what the subject matter is. Yes, the actual course of the events of the orignal movie were not all that hard to follow. But it raised many more questions than merely "What is real? How do you define real?".
Yes, I honestly do think there was that much to get out of the first Matrix movie. There have been articles pages and pages and pages long written on the subject. But this is a moot point anyway - even if you thought the first movie was uncomplicated, the second and third are without question even less complex than it. It's still a step backwards, no matter from where.
It means "God from a Machine"
*Edit*
Sorry for such a sparce post that doesn't bring up any new points and resurrects a long dead thread, I just thought I'd insert a useless fact for nobody's convience. Sorry.
Now THAT is sig mtaerial <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
It means "God from a Machine"
*Edit*
Sorry for such a sparce post that doesn't bring up any new points and resurrects a long dead thread, I just thought I'd insert a useless fact for nobody's convience. Sorry. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, I know. I realise that's what they meant. At the same time, it was also a contrived plot device which is what the term usually means. Hence the irony <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
First, read this. <a href='http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/031109matrix.htm' target='_blank'>The Matrix Eplained</a> It's a rather excellently written explaination of this movie. It basically should be required reading for anybody who starts trying to talk about this.
The movie was great. Sure, the whole he's christ thing was done rather heavy handedly, but It did needed to be done so that the average person could actually grasp the concept. Hell, even with how blatent it is people still missed it. Many people here seem to be over estimating the average movie goer, and even the above average movie goer.
And now, to stress this again, read this. NOW **** NOW. <a href='http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/031109matrix.htm' target='_blank'>The Matrix Eplained</a>
Sadly, as an atheist I'm having trouble getting over the stigmatizm that this is a "God" movie. Eh, it'll pass. I think I'll just latch onto the two themes that I really like from it. "Love is just a word" and "Because I choose to".
My favorite fight in this movie was actually the fight between Neo and Smith/Bane. I liked it cause the actor who did Bane did such a good job doing a Hugo Weaving impression, and because it wasn't wire fu. It was just a normal brawl, with neither of them having special powers. I thought it was really well done.
Enough rambling.
<b><span style='font-size:30pt;line-height:100%'>READ THIS NOW.</span></b><a href='http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/031109matrix.htm' target='_blank'>The Matrix Eplained</a>
Seraph is just a program designed to protect code carriers, I guess the Oracle used to be one of them, and now the little girl is the new one.
Merv (love that nick name) is just a program that traffiks information and smuggles illegal programs, he smuggled the little girl so the Matrix could be restored, without the Matrix Merv has no power, so he wants Smith to fail, and that is why he was so mad at the Oracle for saving Smith.
PS anyone who thought Neo vs. Smith fight sucked shouldn't be watching the Matrix in the first place. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The actual action wasn't all that great.
The setting with the Smiths overlooking from the Windows lit up, and the sky raining, an AWESOME piece of music (anyone know the name of it) and great lighting (not lightining, though that was cool to) made it have the potential, but the acting was, bleh.
Neo has the power to explode the machines...
Why didn't Neo just stay in Zion and explode the machines... and like... they wouldn't explode like the Sentinel Bombs, they'd zap like the 5 he did at the end of Reloaded....
...
THEN go kick the arse out of the machines... like why would they give a crap about the Matrix if their whole civilization was under threat... priorities people... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those weren't senitels he was blowing up, I don't think.
Remember when those sentiels DID come, Trinity made a note and said senitels inbound (or something like that), not MORE senitels inbound, implying they were the first ones they came in contact with (the ones that attached to the logos) and when Neo tries to blow them it drains him a whole lot more.
The architect however never thought humans and machines could live in peace, he believed humans would always try to destroy them, the Oracle always thought there was hope for peace and I suppose she was aware that after this Reload of the Matrix the equation would be balanced for good and no humans would be free from the Matrix again that's why she used Smith to pose a great enough danger to the Machine God to have it make a promise of peace.
Makes a kind of sense, the enemy of your enemy is your friend. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hearing this actually made me increase my rating of the final matrix. Still not nearly as good as the first or nearly as good as the second, but bearable now.
They showed a closeup of bane's face after his nose was severed from his face partially, and thought I heard most of the audience shift in their seats.
btw I saw the matrix 3 for a 2nd time yesterday, you pick up so much more
also if you look you can see smithbane's decaptated stump after neo served him up
Ok. So, I was talking to my girlfriend last night, because she had just seen it (Sunday) and I saw it Saturday.
One of her questions was "Why did Trinity have to die?" I came up with a very simple explanation. One part of it was that the Architect told Neo that Trinity was going to die, and he could not stop it. But Neo went through the left-hand door (the one that led to Trinity) because he was in love. When she died (and I thought it was just the right length. It was about 4-6 minutes. Which, considering where she was imapled, is about the right amount of time) Neo lost everything worth living for. If anyone read <i>Dune/Dune Messiah/Children of Dune</i> *SPOILER* remember when Cheni dies and Muad'Dib loses his "eyeless vision"? When Trinity died, I felt that for a second Neo was Muad'Dib, watching the one thing that he lived for leave him? Trinity had to die for Neo to be willing to sacrifice himself to Smith. Neo knew that the Deus Ex Machina wouldn't let him get out of the city alive. When he died, the source code of the One was re-inserted into the Matrix, which then let the Deus Ex Machina "reset" the Matrix, thereby wiping out the non-saved data...Smith. It let the Deus Ex Machina reset and wipe out Smith.
I'll post more later.
MIFUNE PWNS
And regarding the complexity of the first film and being able to label the lack of said complexiity apparent on account of my understanding:
I do not consider myself a very astute, bright person. There are many more who know more than I do. Knowing this, I <i>still</i> fully understood what was happening the first time through. Subsequent viewing have not really taught me a whole lot (perhaps this is because I maybe never understood the first at all? I would say this is unlikely, as I have read the multitudes of synopsi online.).
On the other hand, even after having seen Reloaded nearly 10 times, I still do not understand the meanings and implications (not to mention cultural references) that saturate it. I simply don't. Admittedly, I've only seen Revolutions once as of yet, and my understanding is very limited. I've discussed it with other people, I've thought about it, I've read about it...but yet I know that there is much, much more.
In summation, after seeing the first Matrix, my favorite scene was the lobby scene (of course). When one's favorite scene in a supposedly philosophical movie is the big "climax action scene", what does that say about the movie? Especially since my favorite scene in Reloaded was the Architect scene. To put it short, I have thought much more about the second two mivies that the first, from which I came away saying "OMG! Bulet time rocks!" The second and third movies elicited more of a "<i>whoa</i>!" response.
I have a task for all you who liked the first Matrix the best: Watch it again. Hell, rent reloaded, and watch all three in a day. Trust me - you'll get a much better understanding for the two 'sequels', and will realize the "fake-looking" shortcomings of the first film. Try it.
Thant is all for now. I'll strap on the ol' hip waders and discuss this later tonight <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->