Something tells me Agent Smith will figure out some way to really stop Neo.
You see this progression of programs. First you have the agents which are hooked up to the mainframe and do the machine's will. Next, you have rogue agents like Agent Smith which aren't actually agents, but viruses almost which consume resources and do their own thing (hack other programs).
Finally, you have the final step of the cycle, the french guy. He was around for quite a long time and obviously knew a lot of tricks. He's made his own programs, and an enemy against both machines and humans (I guessing he might be an ally in Revolutions though).
Seriously though i think Agent Smith is Neo's father and that's how he became the one... Let me explain it this way. The Greeks had their own sets of Gods and what not, Gods were invincible and had superpowers. Than their were humans, you and me. Now if a human and a God ever got to together than they would have a baby and that baby would be a Hero. A Hero would share the abilities of both a human and a God. ie. Hercules. Now what does this have to do with The Matrix... Well Agent Smith is a program, so if Agent Smith was his father and his mother was a human than we've got ourselves a Hero... or The One <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> Yeah, it sounds stupid but The Matrix does use a lot of their names from Mythology. ie. Persephone, Morpheus.
It'd be funny as hell to see them do the Empire Strikes Back scene
"Mr. Anderson, I am your father" "no" (it'd have to be a serious no because this is Keanu Reaves and he can't act) <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
And yes we will see the French Guy again "We will meet again"
Did anyone notice the similarities between Agent Smith's manner of speaking when they were in the white corridor near the end and The Administrator's in Half-Life? He sounds very very very similar, right down to the wet, sucking intake of breath before each sentence.
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
edited May 2003
Call me Crazy
But i think that assassin/sabatour guy is Cypher.
No you all say he was dead at the end of the first matrix, but we what did we really see. We saw him get shot by Tank. We never knew what happened to him after that. We all thought Cypher killed Tank by shooting him but Tank did not die.
So y not the same with Cypher, perhaps his body was brought back or lost or who knows. He wants to be reinserted into the matrix, He wants revenge, He wants Neo and friends to fail so they cannot win. Cypher needs the Matrix, and so he needs Zion to lose.
Also the reset of the Matrix makes lots of sence to me. If you never restart your PC it will crash eventually.
lets just hope Microsoft didn't program the Matrix =P
and remember when the french guy swore in french? well i bet it was a different reaction in the u.s. because just about everyone in the theatre new what he was saying and so they lol'ed.
<!--QuoteBegin--Flying-Bastard+May 16 2003, 03:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flying-Bastard @ May 16 2003, 03:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Remember that Smith wasnt "free'd" from the Matrix. He is a program, and when programs fail and/or are replaced by other programs, they are flushed and go back to the mainframe. But here, Smith stayed and got new abilities. He isnt fighting for the matrix, but wants revenge on Neo. Thats why he said he is "free" and why he removes his earbud. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> My point is that he was able to disconnect himself from the Matrix mind, because of what Neo did to him. If I remember correctly, he blamed Neo because, by dying, he became defective, and was sent for deletion. What I'm thinking is that perhaps Neo, by entering into Smith's body, was able to connect to the Matrix mind, and effectively tap into the conversations playing there. Think of it like Picard and the Borg - even after he was separated from the hive mind (aka Neo ramming into Smith's belly) Picard was still able to hear the Borg's whispers (Neo was able to feel when the sentinels were near, etc). See the connection?
I'm not denying that the reason Smith is still around is for revenge. What I'm saying is perhaps he played a big part in developing the abilities Neo has gained.
No you all say he was dead at the end of the first matrix, but we what did we really see. We saw him get shot by Tank. We never knew what happened to him after that. We all thought Cypher killed Tank by shooting him but Tank did not die.
So y not the same with Cypher, perhaps his body was brought back or lost or who knows. He wants to be reinserted into the matrix, He wants revenge, He wants Neo and friends to fail so they cannot win. Cypher needs the Matrix, and so he needs Zion to lose.
Also the reset of the Matrix makes lots of sence to me. If you never restart your PC it will crash eventually. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Perhaps Cypher is a rogue program like Agent Smith, in the 2nd layer of the Matrix...
(Hell, I'm just gonna call it the Zion Layer from now on)
I don't buy into this whole "2nd layer of matrix" thing, call me crazy. I think they'd have to bend over backwards to not have that be <i>really</i> cheesy/predictable: "We're <i>still</i> in the matrix?!". Good lord hasn't every weak multiple reality movie used that "twist" to death?
So does anyone else here follow boxing and pick out Roy Jones Jr? He was the captain of the saboteur's ship. When calling for 2 captains to go find the Neb, saboteur leans down and tries to get his captain to speak up, it was Roy Jones Jr (he's in other scenes too, had lots of dialogue for a boxer).
Also, anyone have an idea of what french guy (Merovingian) was saying during his little swearing spree? Was it a sentence or just a string of obscenities? I don't suppose the filter will allow anyone to post the actual quote.
So I hate to say it but I was somewhat disapointed by what was supposed to be the marquee scene of the movie (burly brawl). Ironically, I enjoyed it up until Neo became CG. Far superiour was the sequence starting with stealing the keymaker and not ending until the finish of the car chase. That was like 20-30mins of hardcore action. I found it exhausting to watch. Also I enjoyed Neo's battle with Seraph (Oracle's guard), and I do believe I saw a quick glimpse of a rematch during the Revelations trailer (you <i>did</i> stay after credits to see it didnt you? At least half of the theatre i was in left before it.)
<i><b>Edit:</b> I just found out that the actress that played the Oracle died during filming, and wasn't able to complete her scenes for Revelations. That sucks. R.I.P. Gloria Foster.</i>
Agent Smith, being a renegade, IS an enemy of the machines as well now, right? (we see him infecting an agent) Having been destroyed, he's supposed to go back (forgot the name of the place) since he doesn't have a <b>purpose</b> anymore. He's like what the Oracle said: a ghost, vampire, aliens, something that's NOT intended in the Matrix.
But there's something odd about that... the sentinels ARE the Machines as well, yet for some reason, they let the person infected with Smith's persona live, even though Smith is not an Agent of the Machines anymore...
And from what I gathered from the previous posts, they DON'T want The One to be killed, so why did that guy live?
Theory: They DIDN'T INTEND to let the Smith infected person live; if both Neo and the Smith-infectee are "connected", the Smith-infectee may share in Neo's powers and have stopped the Sentinels similarly to how Neo stopped them.
BTW, did anyone think that the Zion's "Rave Pit" looked just like Sauraman's "work pit" from The Two Towers? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The sabatour was Bane, the guy with the beard that tried to stab Neo, who is actually agent smith, who used his new powers to take over Bane's body in the Matrix and used his exit to get into the real world.
There are more than one Smith in the real world because during the scene where the council asks 2 captins to volunteer Bane asks, "should we volunteer?" and two people around him respond.
If your not sure about this watch the movie again and pay attention to Banes actions, if anyone has any idea as to what the two cuts mean on Bane's hand I would appreciate your insight.
Edit: Neo isn't a program, he's human. The term "the one" just applies to the highest level of the 1% of humans who have the anomoly inherint in them. Morpheus, Trinity, Niobe, etc. are all anomolies Neo just gained the greatest mastery of control in the Matrix by defying the rules of the greatest control system the Matrix has, death.
aaahhhh!! why was the first frigging half politics of zion and some dancing and a sex scene! the editors were sleeeeping.
okay. we had never seen zion. we had never seen Link. we had never seen neo's feelings for trinity. all three of these things were invented between the movies 1 and 2. for some reason they make up a 45 minute chunk in the beginning! it was booring, sleepy, worthless. it felt like star wars episode 2, i was afraid the movie was gonna turn into a pile of special effects and some idiotic nerd references.
okay, luckily the plot picked up after the twenty frigging minutes of dancing and sex scene, and we get into the matrix movie. that is, after another twenty minutes of politics amongst people we have never heard of. k, i dont care about real life politics why am i watching commander dunkirk shouting at councilor steevo and councilor nappy and captain nalaa. i tell you the first half just needed a jarjar to make it as bad as star wars.
second half = win. matrix fighting awesomeness, and the deep plot awesomeness. no doubt about it.
---------
about the neo vs sentinels, either they just mixed in star wars and xmen THE FORCE, or there is another level to the matrix! why didnt they elaborate on that? the movie jsut kinda ends right there, it was more abrupt than lord of the rings. movies nowadays are all the same, and they are all half bad.
<!--QuoteBegin--dr.d+May 17 2003, 06:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ May 17 2003, 06:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if anyone has any idea as to what the two cuts mean on Bane's hand I would appreciate your insight. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> if bane = smith (which i dont believe) then smith is testing out humanistic things like pain, because no doubt agents dont feel pain.
however i believe bane is just someone who does not believe the prophecy like the commandant doesnt believe, and he wants to sabotage the stupid religious fanatics before they leave home base for the big war about to ensue.
Wait a minute. I didn't exactly remember which door stood for what (in the TV room with the architect) but didn't Neo go to the same door that every previous Neo had gone through? (You saw all the Neos on the monitor going to the same door. Or was that just a realtime video of him?) And how many past Neos were there? Only 6? When they showed those monitors 24 at a time, it seemed like every one was a different one. (BTW it was hilarious to watch what the other Neos did, especially the one who just held out the finger <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->)
Why did the rogue Agent Smith want to help out the machines by EMPing all the ships??
Did anyone else catch that shot when the camera was going in front of the Christmas sale on the sidewalk? Hidden behind all the flashy toys was a solitary picture of Jesus, LOL! I laughed hard when I saw that.
Also: The receptionist in the French guy's building looked like Cypher with a ... French facial hairstyle!
okay, bane obviously equals smith because you see smith take over bane before he exits the matrix. watch the movie again and don't get up to take a **** and maybe you'll catch it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> There were only 6 Neo's and I believe that the monitors were just showing Neo's thoughts and what he was doing, not what the other Neos did. everyone says that it was bane who emped but I don't remember them mentioning who did it, they just said one of the ships accidently emped early, which really means it could've been an accident.
Gee Zel and then you go "I don't believe Bane is Smith". Pay attention to the boring politics and backstory, the two cuts obviously mean something, if he wanted pain he could have just made one cut. And the sex scene that all you geeks seem to have some kind of alergic reaction to is important since love is the deciding factor in Neo's decision not to rebuild Zion.
Another question/theory to anyone who might know, current council = the people the last "one" chose?
PS: Love scene = possibility of Trinity + Neo having a kid = Super-****-kicking x2
I saw Reloaded... and, in comparison to the first movie... it didn't match the awesomeness the first one had. Okay, okay.. you get all the other people, the french guy, the ghosts (COOOL!), and Morpheus with an auto-Glock and a Katana... but, to me, they made a mistake. That mistake... was showing Zion.
Zion, to me, was that place that no one knew about, or could see. It added to the movie a mystery... an imagination that was needed in order for the audience to dream while watching it. The only cool thing about Zion were those mech things... I want one! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
i for one believe the Architect was lying, that he, like the oracle, fed Neo false information to send him down a path of self-realization of abilities and importance.
I'd say more but i'm too tired to remember the rest of my theory and i need to see the movie again <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I saw it last night, loved it. I didn't fully understand the choice between trinity and zion, i was really cool. I doubt it s a Matrix within a Matrix. I'm guessing he now has understood his 'divine' nature. Consider this...
'Programs' in the matrix show up as gold in code view. I you see Neo in code mode (specifically during hs manual defibrilation of trinity's heart) you see little jumps of gold in the symbols. I'm guessing this is showing his divine nature. He has simply discovered this connection in his mind. He has connection to the divine (the machine's central mind) awakened in his 'outside matrix' self. Machines have a singular conciousness, don't they? So a merge with the machine mind in the Matrix would be valid...
The only part I didn't like was Morpheus' speech. It felt like "Alright, lets try this one last time Mr. Fishburne..."
EDIT On the notion of the Arch... He doesn't 'lie'. He said Trinity would die regardless of what Neo did... and she did. The Arch. can not predict the actions of the One because he can break the rules that let the Arch. predict the future. Of course, the arch doesn't lie, so what about his line that Neo can only choose 1- trinity or mankind. Neo needs to reach the source to stop the Matrix from within... but how can he since the 314 (WTH does this # mean?) seconds have past. Neo can bend the matrix at his will almost... waht if he is capable of 'System Restore'- move the matrix back to a previous state. He sets it to the choice again, only this time making sure trinity is out of the matrix. Chooses humanity.
<!--QuoteBegin--dr.d+May 17 2003, 07:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ May 17 2003, 07:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Gee Zel and then you go "I don't believe Bane is Smith". Pay attention to the boring politics and backstory, the two cuts obviously mean something, if he wanted pain he could have just made one cut. And the sex scene that all you geeks seem to have some kind of alergic reaction to is important since love is the deciding factor in Neo's decision not to rebuild Zion. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> its not that bane isnt smith, its that i thought bane was someone else, i get names and faes mixed up because i dont recognize faces very well. (call me disabled <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
the sex scene was gratuitous, we knew they were in love because they were making out in every single scene, or eyeing each other, taking the elevator into zion they were going at it like rabbits. we didnt have to have the camera on his bed for a full fifteen minutes to get the point.
The sex scene was so very relevant! It displayed the difference between man and machine; it wasn't in there for plot.
The sex scene showed flesh, sweat, passion, love, desire, fear, hope, etc. It is the sex scene that keeps the audience aware of what the war is about- humanity, in a nutshell.
Anyone mind explaining the relationship of the Orgasm Cake to causality.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
edited May 2003
The architect refered to Neo as the sum of a remainder, and that he was the sixth 'One'. The architect also said that Zion and the whole resistance was an error that was growing exponentially and that it had been destroyed 5 times previously.
Now I am going to assume that the whole population of Zion is the remainder, each person who populates it is represented as one decimal place in this remainder. Neo is the result of the rounding up of this decimal number. In the past 5 incarnations of the matrix, the result of this rounding up always gave the same number, the number 1; 1 in this case refers to two other things, Neo as 'The One' and the 1% of the human population who rejected the matrix. Since Zion is an exponential problem for the architect, the actual numbers that make up the remainder grow with each incarnation of the matrix.
With the first incarnation, the remainder was roughly 1.0 (I am going to assume that the remainders have one decimal place for each inhabitant of Zion). With the second incarnation, this number increased to 1.1. Following this pattern, the remainder in the fifth incarnation of the matrix (the one before the current one) was 1.4 . As stated before, these remainders always rounded up to 1. But when you get to 1.5, it's an entirely different ballgame. Because when you round 1.5 up, you get 2. Getting back to each decimal place being an inhabitant of Zion, the first decimal place in all of the remainders is Trinity, followed closely by Morpheus.
[EDIT] Neo being 'The Two' in this incarnation of the matrix may explain why he went for the door on his left to save trinity instead of going through the door on the right, which I am assuming was the door that the previous 'Ones' chose.
On an unrelated note, in the credits, the person who you are calling Bane is referred to as Cain. Considering that in the bible Cain killed his brother and that someone's ally could also be called his brother; I find his name rather apt.
Well, I saw Reloaded AGAIN tonight. Very interesting. I was amazed at how much more I caught this time that I didn't even think anything of the first time I saw it, especially all the extensive foreshadowing by the Counseller, Seraph, the Oracle, Smith, and the Keymaker. Even the Frennch guy made a lot of sense heh.
And since I wasn't busy watching multiple monitors, I got to hear more of the Architect's speech, so it made more sense too.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
Ok, heres the real explanation for the sentinel breakdown at the end (ok, actually its just more speculation) Neo <i>does</i> have a cellphone implanted in his head, I mean, think about it, Neo was created by the machines, because he is necessary (I think we have that part covered <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ), they put it in in order to make sure <i>he</i> became the one, all those errors had to go somewhere, they made sure they go to him, because they would have hundreds of thousands of "ones" if they didn't, remember that Neo wasn't "born" he was harvested, brought up in a test tube, they put something in him that collected all the errors and gave him a connection to the machines, the coma was probably a failsafe, as he would have been something of a problem if he was allowed to use this power unchecked.
And about the orgasm pie: Maybe I was watching a special directors cut version of the Matrix Reloaded but in the one I saw the pie was <i>not</i> programmed to give the woman an orgasm, see the french guy's girlfriend's comments about him "wearing lipstick" to see what it was really made for.
I didn't think cain being smithicated really happened, as after it happens you immediatly switch to a shot of neo waking up, and every time that's happened before in the movie it's been a dream.
But I am rather intregued by the therory that cain was cutting himself to feel pain if he were an agent.
The rave pit in zion looked a lot like a drug-induced trance-dance. Soma et A Brave New World anyone?
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
edited May 2003
Cain had to be smithicated because he died when he was... erm... Matrix smithicated. I wonder if in revolutions smith will contribute to the downfall of the matrix? Not intentionally of course, kind of like he already did when the keymaker died (if the keymaker had opened the door a split second sooner they all would have died). [edit] Damn you people all to hell! You've convinced me to see it again because I didn't stay after the credits <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
P.S. What the hell happened to the smilies? I seem to remember them being cleaned (you couldn't see those funky white borders) [/edit]
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
edited May 2003
actually everything Neo dreamed about did come true. Trinity di blow up the security building with a bike, she did jump out of a window and get shot and a car did get crushed under the impact of a falling body (we aren't told whose body it is until the end of the movie). It is theoretically possible for Smith to invade Cain's mind; since you jack into the matrix through your brain stem, by taking over Cain's avatar in the matrix, Smith effectivly brainwashed him.
Like most people in this thread, I believe that the 'real world' is just another layer of the matrix. A better analogy would be to imagine the real world as a function or command in a programming language (eg. cout, cin, Mod, Random); to the programmer (the architect), it is just another part in a line of code, a means to an end. But the function actually has alot of code lying behind it. A visual example is the clock on the wall of the guard room at the very start of the movie; when you first see the clock, you see millions upon millions of lines of code forming some unknown monstrosity, but when it zooms out fully, you see that all that code was just for a clock.
[EDIT] Following this reasoning, the Real World is just a means to an end; the end being the removal of the remainder
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
edited May 2003
Well... In Matrix Revolutions they are going to destroy the machines and free humanity from the matrix... And then at the very end it will show that the real world is really another matrix, I really hope that they don't do that but its a 90% sure bet that they will... Although we may be pleasantly surprised... I mean, there isn't a being in the universe that wasn't surprised by what happened in Reloaded (yes... Even the Wachowski's! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ).
Comments
You see this progression of programs. First you have the agents which are hooked up to the mainframe and do the machine's will. Next, you have rogue agents like Agent Smith which aren't actually agents, but viruses almost which consume resources and do their own thing (hack other programs).
Finally, you have the final step of the cycle, the french guy. He was around for quite a long time and obviously knew a lot of tricks. He's made his own programs, and an enemy against both machines and humans (I guessing he might be an ally in Revolutions though).
Seriously though i think Agent Smith is Neo's father and that's how he became the one... Let me explain it this way. The Greeks had their own sets of Gods and what not, Gods were invincible and had superpowers. Than their were humans, you and me. Now if a human and a God ever got to together than they would have a baby and that baby would be a Hero. A Hero would share the abilities of both a human and a God. ie. Hercules. Now what does this have to do with The Matrix... Well Agent Smith is a program, so if Agent Smith was his father and his mother was a human than we've got ourselves a Hero... or The One <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> Yeah, it sounds stupid but The Matrix does use a lot of their names from Mythology. ie. Persephone, Morpheus.
It'd be funny as hell to see them do the Empire Strikes Back scene
"Mr. Anderson, I am your father"
"no" (it'd have to be a serious no because this is Keanu Reaves and he can't act) <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
And yes we will see the French Guy again "We will meet again"
I think Red Wizard's explanation is the most plausible
and if you watch Matrix 1 (I did before I saw Reloaded, called it Basics & Review) Morpheus shuts down everything except the matrix-system.
God...so much...thought...must...see...again.
Coincidence?
--Scythe--
But i think that assassin/sabatour guy is Cypher.
No you all say he was dead at the end of the first matrix, but we what did we really see. We saw him get shot by Tank. We never knew what happened to him after that. We all thought Cypher killed Tank by shooting him but Tank did not die.
So y not the same with Cypher, perhaps his body was brought back or lost or who knows.
He wants to be reinserted into the matrix, He wants revenge, He wants Neo and friends to fail so they cannot win. Cypher needs the Matrix, and so he needs Zion to lose.
Also the reset of the Matrix makes lots of sence to me.
If you never restart your PC it will crash eventually.
and remember when the french guy swore in french? well i bet it was a different reaction in the u.s. because just about everyone in the theatre new what he was saying and so they lol'ed.
My point is that he was able to disconnect himself from the Matrix mind, because of what Neo did to him. If I remember correctly, he blamed Neo because, by dying, he became defective, and was sent for deletion. What I'm thinking is that perhaps Neo, by entering into Smith's body, was able to connect to the Matrix mind, and effectively tap into the conversations playing there. Think of it like Picard and the Borg - even after he was separated from the hive mind (aka Neo ramming into Smith's belly) Picard was still able to hear the Borg's whispers (Neo was able to feel when the sentinels were near, etc). See the connection?
I'm not denying that the reason Smith is still around is for revenge. What I'm saying is perhaps he played a big part in developing the abilities Neo has gained.
But i think that assassin/sabatour guy is Cypher.
No you all say he was dead at the end of the first matrix, but we what did we really see. We saw him get shot by Tank. We never knew what happened to him after that. We all thought Cypher killed Tank by shooting him but Tank did not die.
So y not the same with Cypher, perhaps his body was brought back or lost or who knows.
He wants to be reinserted into the matrix, He wants revenge, He wants Neo and friends to fail so they cannot win. Cypher needs the Matrix, and so he needs Zion to lose.
Also the reset of the Matrix makes lots of sence to me.
If you never restart your PC it will crash eventually. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps Cypher is a rogue program like Agent Smith, in the 2nd layer of the Matrix...
(Hell, I'm just gonna call it the Zion Layer from now on)
So does anyone else here follow boxing and pick out Roy Jones Jr? He was the captain of the saboteur's ship. When calling for 2 captains to go find the Neb, saboteur leans down and tries to get his captain to speak up, it was Roy Jones Jr (he's in other scenes too, had lots of dialogue for a boxer).
Also, anyone have an idea of what french guy (Merovingian) was saying during his little swearing spree? Was it a sentence or just a string of obscenities? I don't suppose the filter will allow anyone to post the actual quote.
So I hate to say it but I was somewhat disapointed by what was supposed to be the marquee scene of the movie (burly brawl). Ironically, I enjoyed it up until Neo became CG. Far superiour was the sequence starting with stealing the keymaker and not ending until the finish of the car chase. That was like 20-30mins of hardcore action. I found it exhausting to watch. Also I enjoyed Neo's battle with Seraph (Oracle's guard), and I do believe I saw a quick glimpse of a rematch during the Revelations trailer (you <i>did</i> stay after credits to see it didnt you? At least half of the theatre i was in left before it.)
<i><b>Edit:</b> I just found out that the actress that played the Oracle died during filming, and wasn't able to complete her scenes for Revelations. That sucks. R.I.P. Gloria Foster.</i>
*bump*
Oh, I guess you missed it.
But there's something odd about that... the sentinels ARE the Machines as well, yet for some reason, they let the person infected with Smith's persona live, even though Smith is not an Agent of the Machines anymore...
And from what I gathered from the previous posts, they DON'T want The One to be killed, so why did that guy live?
Theory: They DIDN'T INTEND to let the Smith infected person live; if both Neo and the Smith-infectee are "connected", the Smith-infectee may share in Neo's powers and have stopped the Sentinels similarly to how Neo stopped them.
BTW, did anyone think that the Zion's "Rave Pit" looked just like Sauraman's "work pit" from The Two Towers? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The sabatour was Bane, the guy with the beard that tried to stab Neo, who is actually agent smith, who used his new powers to take over Bane's body in the Matrix and used his exit to get into the real world.
There are more than one Smith in the real world because during the scene where the council asks 2 captins to volunteer Bane asks, "should we volunteer?" and two people around him respond.
If your not sure about this watch the movie again and pay attention to Banes actions, if anyone has any idea as to what the two cuts mean on Bane's hand I would appreciate your insight.
Edit: Neo isn't a program, he's human. The term "the one" just applies to the highest level of the 1% of humans who have the anomoly inherint in them. Morpheus, Trinity, Niobe, etc. are all anomolies Neo just gained the greatest mastery of control in the Matrix by defying the rules of the greatest control system the Matrix has, death.
okay. we had never seen zion. we had never seen Link. we had never seen neo's feelings for trinity. all three of these things were invented between the movies 1 and 2. for some reason they make up a 45 minute chunk in the beginning! it was booring, sleepy, worthless. it felt like star wars episode 2, i was afraid the movie was gonna turn into a pile of special effects and some idiotic nerd references.
okay, luckily the plot picked up after the twenty frigging minutes of dancing and sex scene, and we get into the matrix movie. that is, after another twenty minutes of politics amongst people we have never heard of. k, i dont care about real life politics why am i watching commander dunkirk shouting at councilor steevo and councilor nappy and captain nalaa. i tell you the first half just needed a jarjar to make it as bad as star wars.
second half = win. matrix fighting awesomeness, and the deep plot awesomeness. no doubt about it.
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about the neo vs sentinels, either they just mixed in star wars and xmen THE FORCE, or there is another level to the matrix! why didnt they elaborate on that? the movie jsut kinda ends right there, it was more abrupt than lord of the rings. movies nowadays are all the same, and they are all half bad.
if bane = smith (which i dont believe) then smith is testing out humanistic things like pain, because no doubt agents dont feel pain.
however i believe bane is just someone who does not believe the prophecy like the commandant doesnt believe, and he wants to sabotage the stupid religious fanatics before they leave home base for the big war about to ensue.
Why did the rogue Agent Smith want to help out the machines by EMPing all the ships??
Did anyone else catch that shot when the camera was going in front of the Christmas sale on the sidewalk? Hidden behind all the flashy toys was a solitary picture of Jesus, LOL! I laughed hard when I saw that.
Also: The receptionist in the French guy's building looked like Cypher with a ... French facial hairstyle!
Another question/theory to anyone who might know, current council = the people the last "one" chose?
PS: Love scene = possibility of Trinity + Neo having a kid = Super-****-kicking x2
Zion, to me, was that place that no one knew about, or could see. It added to the movie a mystery... an imagination that was needed in order for the audience to dream while watching it. The only cool thing about Zion were those mech things... I want one! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'd say more but i'm too tired to remember the rest of my theory and i need to see the movie again <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
'Programs' in the matrix show up as gold in code view. I you see Neo in code mode (specifically during hs manual defibrilation of trinity's heart) you see little jumps of gold in the symbols. I'm guessing this is showing his divine nature. He has simply discovered this connection in his mind. He has connection to the divine (the machine's central mind) awakened in his 'outside matrix' self. Machines have a singular conciousness, don't they? So a merge with the machine mind in the Matrix would be valid...
The only part I didn't like was Morpheus' speech. It felt like "Alright, lets try this one last time Mr. Fishburne..."
EDIT
On the notion of the Arch...
He doesn't 'lie'. He said Trinity would die regardless of what Neo did... and she did. The Arch. can not predict the actions of the One because he can break the rules that let the Arch. predict the future. Of course, the arch doesn't lie, so what about his line that Neo can only choose 1- trinity or mankind. Neo needs to reach the source to stop the Matrix from within... but how can he since the 314 (WTH does this # mean?) seconds have past. Neo can bend the matrix at his will almost... waht if he is capable of 'System Restore'- move the matrix back to a previous state. He sets it to the choice again, only this time making sure trinity is out of the matrix. Chooses humanity.
its not that bane isnt smith, its that i thought bane was someone else, i get names and faes mixed up because i dont recognize faces very well. (call me disabled <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
the sex scene was gratuitous, we knew they were in love because they were making out in every single scene, or eyeing each other, taking the elevator into zion they were going at it like rabbits. we didnt have to have the camera on his bed for a full fifteen minutes to get the point.
The sex scene showed flesh, sweat, passion, love, desire, fear, hope, etc. It is the sex scene that keeps the audience aware of what the war is about- humanity, in a nutshell.
Anyone mind explaining the relationship of the Orgasm Cake to causality.
Now I am going to assume that the whole population of Zion is the remainder, each person who populates it is represented as one decimal place in this remainder. Neo is the result of the rounding up of this decimal number. In the past 5 incarnations of the matrix, the result of this rounding up always gave the same number, the number 1; 1 in this case refers to two other things, Neo as 'The One' and the 1% of the human population who rejected the matrix. Since Zion is an exponential problem for the architect, the actual numbers that make up the remainder grow with each incarnation of the matrix.
With the first incarnation, the remainder was roughly 1.0 (I am going to assume that the remainders have one decimal place for each inhabitant of Zion). With the second incarnation, this number increased to 1.1. Following this pattern, the remainder in the fifth incarnation of the matrix (the one before the current one) was 1.4 . As stated before, these remainders always rounded up to 1. But when you get to 1.5, it's an entirely different ballgame. Because when you round 1.5 up, you get 2. Getting back to each decimal place being an inhabitant of Zion, the first decimal place in all of the remainders is Trinity, followed closely by Morpheus.
[EDIT] Neo being 'The Two' in this incarnation of the matrix may explain why he went for the door on his left to save trinity instead of going through the door on the right, which I am assuming was the door that the previous 'Ones' chose.
On an unrelated note, in the credits, the person who you are calling Bane is referred to as Cain. Considering that in the bible Cain killed his brother and that someone's ally could also be called his brother; I find his name rather apt.
And since I wasn't busy watching multiple monitors, I got to hear more of the Architect's speech, so it made more sense too.
And about the orgasm pie: Maybe I was watching a special directors cut version of the Matrix Reloaded but in the one I saw the pie was <i>not</i> programmed to give the woman an orgasm, see the french guy's girlfriend's comments about him "wearing lipstick" to see what it was really made for.
I didn't think cain being smithicated really happened, as after it happens you immediatly switch to a shot of neo waking up, and every time that's happened before in the movie it's been a dream.
But I am rather intregued by the therory that cain was cutting himself to feel pain if he were an agent.
The rave pit in zion looked a lot like a drug-induced trance-dance. Soma et A Brave New World anyone?
Jammer: Pi x 100 maybe?
--Scythe--
[edit] Damn you people all to hell! You've convinced me to see it again because I didn't stay after the credits <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
P.S. What the hell happened to the smilies? I seem to remember them being cleaned (you couldn't see those funky white borders) [/edit]
Like most people in this thread, I believe that the 'real world' is just another layer of the matrix. A better analogy would be to imagine the real world as a function or command in a programming language (eg. cout, cin, Mod, Random); to the programmer (the architect), it is just another part in a line of code, a means to an end. But the function actually has alot of code lying behind it. A visual example is the clock on the wall of the guard room at the very start of the movie; when you first see the clock, you see millions upon millions of lines of code forming some unknown monstrosity, but when it zooms out fully, you see that all that code was just for a clock.
[EDIT] Following this reasoning, the Real World is just a means to an end; the end being the removal of the remainder