<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why did the rogue Agent Smith want to help out the machines by EMPing all the ships??<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because he is just a bad guy. Im serious, he is just plain bad. I mean, what virus has come up to you and given you a hug? None!
<b>My thoughts:</b> I am more into the "A Matrix within the Matrix" theory. But I would rather think of it as one Matrix with multiple levels. First one for the ordinary people, second one for the 1%.
Before Neo stopped the sentinels he said that it was different, he can feel them now. I will interprete that as Neo has broken through the restrictions of the original level and his powers now spill over to the second one that contains Zion. The theory will also explain why agent Smith can possess Bain. As a rogue program set free by the bug (Given by Neo when he plunged his hand into Smith in part 1, much like how Smith plunge his hand to infect other people.) Smith has also gained access into the second level of Matrix.
And I suspect that Neo might not be the One that will wrap things up. The Architect said that they have destroyed 6 Zions and assimilated 5 "the Ones" before Neo. It is highly possible that the numbers are referring to the Hebrew culture whereby 7 is the perfect number that signifies completeness. (Thus the number of the beast is 666, one short of being perfect) If that's true, Neo is the sixth, and one short from the true "The One", whereas the current seventh Zion will remain.
<b>Some questions:</b> Why 16 females and 7 males? The human genome consists of 23 chromosome pairs. A reference to revert to the beginning as a cell?
314 Seconds refers to pi? 3.14?
<b>Some rumours:</b> Reeve himself said in an interview that the plot will not have a "Matrix within a Matrix" kind of concept.
It has been said that Trinity might or might not be an agent.
It has been said that Neo will have a son. The seventh "the One"?
<b>Some interesting Tech comparison:</b> The Matrix = Distributed network program Agents = Antivirus Backdoor = Trojan Keymaker = Veri Sign (Certifies a web site by issuing encryted certificates and a pair of keys) Zion = Underground community of hackers Neo = |33t hacker Sentinels = Tech police in the real world. Think FBI. To broadcast = To hack. Operator = Dial up / DSL / Cable connections Source = Source code of the Distributed network program
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
edited May 2003
They say "Operator" because the people in the matrix dial 0 to get them. Just thought I'd share that random bit of information. [edit] I'm still wondering why everyone thinks that cake was programmed to give the woman an orgasm! Why do you think this? [/edit]
i thought the cake was just programmed to make the woman horny enough that the french guy could have some "fun" with her in the ladies room <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--TenSix+May 18 2003, 04:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TenSix @ May 18 2003, 04:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why did the rogue Agent Smith want to help out the machines by EMPing all the ships??<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because he is just a bad guy. Im serious, he is just plain bad. I mean, what virus has come up to you and given you a hug? None!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> He doesn't work for the Machines anymore though. But I gave a theory on this from my post on the top.
BTW, you guys might want to check this out: <a href='http://www.geocities.com/clark_kent0002/index.htm' target='_blank'>Transcript ( Neo & Architect Talk) </a>
- Direct conversation between the two, along with some insight.
Just a little note, the previous "One's" choose to be reinserted back into the matrix and choose 23 people to start the new Zion. This seems to be an obvious explaination for something Morpheus said in the first movie that always bugged me. Morpheus told the story of a guy long ago who could bend the matrix to his will and that he "freed the first of us", probably 23 of them. Always nagged at me a little, I mean look what it took to get Neo out of the matrix, imagine some guy doing that for the first time all by his self, with no ship to pick him out of that "water" he gets dropped into and his muscles all atrophied. Gotta love continuity.
now a second matrix makes sense, as a catchall for the ones who think theyve escaped. isnt that the point? to control them?
if its not a double matrix, and neo has gotten powers in the REAL real world, then the movie just took a turn for the fantasy-crap. i dont want to think thats true....
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
a bit off topic, but still a strange bit of thinking that my mad brain come up with: Whats the best way to make everyone "Disbelieve" something? Make a film about it
seriously, if you got a call off someone saying "The world is not real, meet me at X location" or watever, u would think they're nuts and hang up. I've seen so much graffiti on walls saying things like "We're all prisoners" and "The world is a lie". what if it was true? OMG! THE GOVERNMENT! AHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!1111111.......
Ok I'm surprised nobody else caught what the Councilor said to Neo, one of Ex-Agent Smith's lines, Still only human. Does this mean he could have been Smithicated? Also think about what Smith has become now. He can hack agents inside the Matrix. He can hack humans and in fact enter their brain in the Real World (or the Real World Matrix?). Summing the point up, he can hack programs. But what if eventually he learns to hack the matrix itself? Remember, as stated in the first movie, the Matrix is based on rules, some can be bent, some broken. What would happen if Smith learned to break rules just as Neo does? Is Agent Smith... The One?
<!--QuoteBegin--OttoDestruct+May 18 2003, 04:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (OttoDestruct @ May 18 2003, 04:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok I'm surprised nobody else caught what the Councilor said to Neo, one of Ex-Agent Smith's lines, Still only human. Does this mean he could have been Smithicated? Also think about what Smith has become now. He can hack agents inside the Matrix. He can hack humans and in fact enter their brain in the Real World (or the Real World Matrix?). Summing the point up, he can hack programs. But what if eventually he learns to hack the matrix itself? Remember, as stated in the first movie, the Matrix is based on rules, some can be bent, some broken. What would happen if Smith learned to break rules just as Neo does? Is Agent Smith... The One?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> programs in windows can hack the operating system only when an outside source gives them explicit instructions on how to do so. for example a programmer who understands windows. the program tiself has no knowledge of the workings of the OS, because it is ALL it knows. for the same reason humans cannot see quantum physics and must speculate about it, agent smith could not hax the matrix. he has just gone crazy mad about neo and is haxing his peers to get at neo,
he is a rouge program. but since the matrix doesnt want neo either, it isnt trying to stop smith.
Yes, but what happens when The Matrix decides that Smith crosses a line and no longer needs him? When The Matrix starts trying to off Smith for good, he could end up helping Neo screw it over, while in the same process backing himself up as a program for the 8th Matrix (6 destroyed, inferring the current is the 7th, and the 8th is on the way.)
Yep I figured that about about Smith after watching reloaded for the third time, both Neo and Smith share the same code, so they are bothe The One, and the reason the Matrix didn't get destroyed was because Smith still carries the code required to restabilize it.
As unlikey as it is I don't think the Matrix within the Matrix would be so bad, wouldn't it be awesome if Revolutions ended with Neo waking up after just having taken the red pill? And then Morpheus would be all like ok now it's time to tell you what the Matrix really is. Woo hoo more matrix movies!
Edit: Again Neo wasn't created by the machines, he's human.
Well there are two possibilities for Bane. One is that he was "brain-washed" by Smith, and two (and probably more likely), whatever allowed Neo to stop the sentinels is the same thing behind the reason why Smith could take over Bane's body. If they were somehow still in the matrix in Zion, that IS agent Smith and yes, Neo can control things in the "real world" because it is in the matrix too. No, I'm not saying there is a matrix outside the matrix. I'm saying Zion is part of the matrix too. That's my theory anyway.
Btw, anybody notice the color of the candy the Oracle was eating on the bench? It was red. The same color of the pill that signifies the "truth" in the first movie.
<!--QuoteBegin--sekdar+May 18 2003, 04:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (sekdar @ May 18 2003, 04:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i thought the cake was just programmed to make the woman horny enough that the french guy could have some "fun" with her in the ladies room <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Gee, was I the only one who opted for the simple explanation that it made her have to pee? Lol.
BTW, Mouse, interesting thing about the decimals, but Trinity wasn't the first person in the matrix; or did you mean something else by this?
[WHO]ThemYou can call me DaveJoin Date: 2002-12-11Member: 10593Members, Constellation
First off, let me say I've only seen it once, so the whole architect scene still confuses me a bit.
ok, what I understood is that the matrix itself was not going to be destroyed as long as neo picked the people to restart zion (A-la the morpheus story in matrix 1 about the guy that freed the first of them). So only zion is going to die nomatter what. The matrix should still keep going.
I believe that the matrix within the matrix is "too easy" for the wachowski's to put into the story. These guys have blown my mind when it came to every expectation I ever had for either movie. Due to some of my personal beliefs in real-life, I think that Neo stopping the sentinels is actually portraying real abilities. Neo is doing it for real because he "believes" he can so blindly that it becomes real. It all goes into the discussions about how everyone's reality is what they make it.
So yeah, he has those powers because he believes in himself so much.
The thing that bugs me is why they bothered to let Bane/Smith live at the end. If Zion is dead nomatter what Neo does, why does bane matter in any way-shape-form ?
Just a thought to pop in about the french guy. IF I were to make broad speculations about an overtoning story to this whole trilogy. I'd have to say that Neo isn't a random possibility but a creation (beyond what the architect is talking about). That his ordeal, including choosing trinity over the world was already planned. And the french guy was a previous "The One" that had done the same thing (meaning that there were much MUCH more than 5 "Ones"). The main reason I believe this is because of the french dude's wife and that whole scene with the kiss. It makes me think too much about a tie between the woman and trinity.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just a thought to pop in about the french guy. IF I were to make broad speculations about an overtoning story to this whole trilogy. I'd have to say that Neo isn't a random possibility but a creation (beyond what the architect is talking about). That his ordeal, including choosing trinity over the world was already planned. And the french guy was a previous "The One" that had done the same thing (meaning that there were much MUCH more than 5 "Ones"). The main reason I believe this is because of the french dude's wife and that whole scene with the kiss. It makes me think too much about a tie between the woman and trinity. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Woah, missed THAT part. He was a former "One" for sure, then? What is the French guy then; A former human that became a program? How would that work exactly? If he was a previous "One", then his physical body can't possibly exist anymore, (he'd be super-old; the last reset is hinted at about a minimum of one hundred years ago). He might be a bit like Cypher in that case then, accepting flase bliss over reality. Further evidence points out that he's not human since when Neo bleeds, he smirks and tells his thugs, "See, he's only human".
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The thing that bugs me is why they bothered to let Bane/Smith live at the end. If Zion is dead nomatter what Neo does, why does bane matter in any way-shape-form ?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think that the Sentinels intended to let Bane live; we know for sure that Smith is not an agent of the Machines anymore, and seeing his new ability infect, I have a hunch he may have disabled the Sentinels the same way Neo did. You also have an added fact that a part of Neo is with him as well.
Either that, or he simply triggered the EMP (assuming it was him), and then quickly hid. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Once again, check the<a href='http://www.geocities.com/clark_kent0002/index.htm' target='_blank'>transcript between the Architect and Neo</a> for more information.
[WHO]ThemYou can call me DaveJoin Date: 2002-12-11Member: 10593Members, Constellation
I had some more thoughts about neo stopping the sentinels. It could be that the part of the "imprint" that smith talked about wasn't an inherent communication with the machines at all. It could be that the imprint is actually a "format" of Neo's brain to be more efficient. I don't want to make too close of associations between brains and computers, because we KNOW they're not the same. But assuming that smith gained his ability to overwrite brains when he joined with Neo, then it stands to reason that he also might have used that ability to some extent right away. And we all know that before u install an OS onto a system that you have to format it to be compatible. Well let's assume that this format only had to do with the internal workings of the brain and not memories.
It stands to reason that Smith would format the brain to be as efficient as possible, seeing as how that's what the machines are after. So maybe in his partial format, smith made Neo's brain close to 100% efficient. Unlocking superhuman powers hidden deep within our psyche if you believe in that sort of stuff (which I do to a small extent).
The french guy was a programmer, he made that cake. He was not following the code, he was making the code. So, he, like neo, could see the code, and he was different from all of the other programs, all the other programs had a purpose, but what was his purpose? I couldn't find any, so maybe he was a former "one"..
[WHO]ThemYou can call me DaveJoin Date: 2002-12-11Member: 10593Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--Confuzor+May 18 2003, 05:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Confuzor @ May 18 2003, 05:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Woah, missed THAT part. He was a former "One" for sure, then? What is the French guy then; A former human that became a program? How would that work exactly? If he was a previous "One", then his physical body can't possibly exist anymore, (he'd be super-old; the last reset is hinted at about a minimum of one hundred years ago). He might be a bit like Cypher in that case then, accepting flase bliss over reality. Further evidence points out that he's not human since when Neo bleeds, he smirks and tells his thugs, "See, he's only human".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, I can't exactly speculate all of that. IF, and that's a big if, that scenario did play out, I'd say that neither Neo or the French guy were EVER human. But at the same time I want to make sure you know that if that plays out, I don't think that the machines as we know them created neo or the french guy either.
I will restate that the wachowski brothers have suprised me and turned every theory I ever had about either movie on it's head. So I wouldn't put a lot of faith into my ideas on this one either <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
[WHO]ThemYou can call me DaveJoin Date: 2002-12-11Member: 10593Members, Constellation
and another thought about the french guy. I wouldn't rule out that he could actually be a super-old human. I mean, Let's assume that around 2050 the war actually started and the first matrix was made. So let's assume that he was part of like the 5th matrix. So that dates his birth somewhere around 2550. And that only assumes that this whole cycle about 6 "The One"s hasn't been repeated a bunch of times as well. I'd think that the machines could have found ways to preserve the human body for an amazing amount of time by that point. The only thing causing people to die being that they believing they're old in the matrix.
if yer body was in a pink goo shoot, you wouldnt really get old fast, would you.
but i think i remember in the movie them actually saying that the merovingian (french guy) IS a program, he is nt human, he is a "manager" higher end program, he is above the agents in status, in fact all of his minions were older versions of agents which he kept for the heck of it. if you listen close, ghosts were the agents who kept humanity scared and in line in the earlier time periods, and the french guy just kept those two for keepsakes
Seriously, the more I hear of this "2nd Matrix" theory, the more I absolutely hate it. I hope to god that you guys are wrong, and if you're not i'll pull my pants down during revolutions, take a crap and throw it at the screen. 2nd layer of reality is the biggest hollywood cop-out since whatever first 3 films did it. The W. Bros (weird, they're W. Bros working for W. bros (warner bros)) were able to move the plot in a fashion that was surprising (to me at least) and interesting. Adding a second matrix would be like letting George Lucas rewrite the script for the third movie (think A.I.). Now I'm all upset... I'm going to go have a beer and settle down.
sorry guys... i read the first four pages but im super tired. ive been reading these forums for awhile and playing ns for awhile but just recently registered. anyways... go figure this would be where i first post.
i dont like the idea of the reality being a second matrix. its stupid and cheezy. its just like us thinking maybe our galaxy is just an atom that forms dog **** for some greater being. or like lisa in the simpsons when she has that whole little city to herself. to explain all that in the next movie would be real hard and it would rip the story to... uh... badness.
anyways, ill read the rest of this thread tomorrow and post some good points. that one i really had to get off my chest.
<!--QuoteBegin--dr.d+May 18 2003, 03:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ May 18 2003, 03:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Edit: Again Neo wasn't created by the machines, he's human.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> He could easily be a human engineered by the machines. Everyone in the Matrix is essentially a test-tube baby anyway. Genetic or bionic manipulation doesn't seem at all out of the question.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin--Windelkron+May 19 2003, 10:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Windelkron @ May 19 2003, 10:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->BTW, Mouse, interesting thing about the decimals, but Trinity wasn't the first person in the matrix; or did you mean something else by this?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, I meant that she is the most important person to Neo. With all decimal numbers, the numbers closest to the decimal point have the most sway over whether it is rounded up or down. Since Neo chose the left door because of Trinity, I am assuming that she is the first decimal place, and Morpheus is the second decimal place because he was the one who got Trinity and Neo together. If all numbers 5 and over get rounded up, you can assume that all of the inhabitants of Zion who believed in the prophecy to be numbers between 5 and 9, whereas the non-believers, Commander Lock and others like him are numbers lower than 5.
I think the reason people got the idea that Neo was made is because of the way the Architect talks, he just states things in a mathametical way, and remember as soon as you are freed from the matrix the only way to get back in is to have yourself hacked in. So basically all the freedom fighters are downloaded into the matrix that's where Neo having code in him comes from, it's not because he's engineered. Besides he's an anamoly why would the matrix willing create an anaomly to threaten it's own existence.
And the french guy is a program, he was never human. French guy, his goons, Persephone, the twins, the oracle, her guard, and the key maker are all exile programs, one's who've been marked for deletion/replacement but have chosen to stay in the matrix. So you have to keep in mind there are two forces at work in the Matrix now the exile programs and the programs still working for matrix itself aka Agents, Sentinels, Architect. Which group wants what is the interesting part.
The exile programs probably wouldn't want Neo to reach the source and reset the Matrix because that would mean they would no longer exist, the only exception to this is the Oracle because she knew Neo would try to save Trinity.
As for Neo having powers in the real world there are three possibilites I can think of. One he has finally convinced himself that he is all powerful even outside the matrix and defied all laws of nature. Two since Neo and Smith share a connection and Smith now exists in the real world Neo was able to use some Smithesq powers to stop the sents. Three reality is just another layer of the matrix (please god no)
smiths consiousness making it into the real world should not mean that neo gets smiths powers when he is in the real world, the matrix is all a bunch of ideas and concepts and should NOT have shut down those sentinels.
the only three explanations are that there is a second matrix or neo is maaaagic or that there was a nearby ship that emped them simultaneously.
two of which suck and the third is a cop-out too.
now perhaps the entire movie after the architect scene was a simulation... of a possibility in neos mind?and then they could reset to the architect scene and continue the movie in a SANE fashion.
Comments
Because he is just a bad guy. Im serious, he is just plain bad. I mean, what virus has come up to you and given you a hug? None!
I am more into the "A Matrix within the Matrix" theory. But I would rather think of it as one Matrix with multiple levels. First one for the ordinary people, second one for the 1%.
Before Neo stopped the sentinels he said that it was different, he can feel them now. I will interprete that as Neo has broken through the restrictions of the original level and his powers now spill over to the second one that contains Zion. The theory will also explain why agent Smith can possess Bain. As a rogue program set free by the bug (Given by Neo when he plunged his hand into Smith in part 1, much like how Smith plunge his hand to infect other people.) Smith has also gained access into the second level of Matrix.
And I suspect that Neo might not be the One that will wrap things up. The Architect said that they have destroyed 6 Zions and assimilated 5 "the Ones" before Neo. It is highly possible that the numbers are referring to the Hebrew culture whereby 7 is the perfect number that signifies completeness. (Thus the number of the beast is 666, one short of being perfect) If that's true, Neo is the sixth, and one short from the true "The One", whereas the current seventh Zion will remain.
<b>Some questions:</b>
Why 16 females and 7 males? The human genome consists of 23 chromosome pairs. A reference to revert to the beginning as a cell?
314 Seconds refers to pi? 3.14?
<b>Some rumours:</b>
Reeve himself said in an interview that the plot will not have a "Matrix within a Matrix" kind of concept.
It has been said that Trinity might or might not be an agent.
It has been said that Neo will have a son. The seventh "the One"?
<b>Some interesting Tech comparison:</b>
The Matrix = Distributed network program
Agents = Antivirus
Backdoor = Trojan
Keymaker = Veri Sign (Certifies a web site by issuing encryted certificates and a pair of keys)
Zion = Underground community of hackers
Neo = |33t hacker
Sentinels = Tech police in the real world. Think FBI.
To broadcast = To hack.
Operator = Dial up / DSL / Cable connections
Source = Source code of the Distributed network program
[edit] I'm still wondering why everyone thinks that cake was programmed to give the woman an orgasm! Why do you think this? [/edit]
Because he is just a bad guy. Im serious, he is just plain bad. I mean, what virus has come up to you and given you a hug? None!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He doesn't work for the Machines anymore though. But I gave a theory on this from my post on the top.
BTW, you guys might want to check this out:
<a href='http://www.geocities.com/clark_kent0002/index.htm' target='_blank'>Transcript ( Neo & Architect Talk) </a>
- Direct conversation between the two, along with some insight.
now a second matrix makes sense, as a catchall for the ones who think theyve escaped. isnt that the point? to control them?
if its not a double matrix, and neo has gotten powers in the REAL real world, then the movie just took a turn for the fantasy-crap. i dont want to think thats true....
Whats the best way to make everyone "Disbelieve" something?
Make a film about it
seriously, if you got a call off someone saying "The world is not real, meet me at X location" or watever, u would think they're nuts and hang up. I've seen so much graffiti on walls saying things like "We're all prisoners" and "The world is a lie". what if it was true?
OMG! THE GOVERNMENT! AHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!1111111.......
I think he's the Two.
programs in windows can hack the operating system only when an outside source gives them explicit instructions on how to do so. for example a programmer who understands windows. the program tiself has no knowledge of the workings of the OS, because it is ALL it knows. for the same reason humans cannot see quantum physics and must speculate about it, agent smith could not hax the matrix. he has just gone crazy mad about neo and is haxing his peers to get at neo,
he is a rouge program. but since the matrix doesnt want neo either, it isnt trying to stop smith.
As unlikey as it is I don't think the Matrix within the Matrix would be so bad, wouldn't it be awesome if Revolutions ended with Neo waking up after just having taken the red pill? And then Morpheus would be all like ok now it's time to tell you what the Matrix really is. Woo hoo more matrix movies!
Edit: Again Neo wasn't created by the machines, he's human.
Btw, anybody notice the color of the candy the Oracle was eating on the bench? It was red. The same color of the pill that signifies the "truth" in the first movie.
Gee, was I the only one who opted for the simple explanation that it made her have to pee? Lol.
BTW, Mouse, interesting thing about the decimals, but Trinity wasn't the first person in the matrix; or did you mean something else by this?
ok, what I understood is that the matrix itself was not going to be destroyed as long as neo picked the people to restart zion (A-la the morpheus story in matrix 1 about the guy that freed the first of them). So only zion is going to die nomatter what. The matrix should still keep going.
I believe that the matrix within the matrix is "too easy" for the wachowski's to put into the story. These guys have blown my mind when it came to every expectation I ever had for either movie. Due to some of my personal beliefs in real-life, I think that Neo stopping the sentinels is actually portraying real abilities. Neo is doing it for real because he "believes" he can so blindly that it becomes real. It all goes into the discussions about how everyone's reality is what they make it.
So yeah, he has those powers because he believes in himself so much.
The thing that bugs me is why they bothered to let Bane/Smith live at the end. If Zion is dead nomatter what Neo does, why does bane matter in any way-shape-form ?
Just a thought to pop in about the french guy. IF I were to make broad speculations about an overtoning story to this whole trilogy. I'd have to say that Neo isn't a random possibility but a creation (beyond what the architect is talking about). That his ordeal, including choosing trinity over the world was already planned. And the french guy was a previous "The One" that had done the same thing (meaning that there were much MUCH more than 5 "Ones"). The main reason I believe this is because of the french dude's wife and that whole scene with the kiss. It makes me think too much about a tie between the woman and trinity.
Woah, missed THAT part. He was a former "One" for sure, then? What is the French guy then; A former human that became a program? How would that work exactly? If he was a previous "One", then his physical body can't possibly exist anymore, (he'd be super-old; the last reset is hinted at about a minimum of one hundred years ago). He might be a bit like Cypher in that case then, accepting flase bliss over reality. Further evidence points out that he's not human since when Neo bleeds, he smirks and tells his thugs, "See, he's only human".
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The thing that bugs me is why they bothered to let Bane/Smith live at the end. If Zion is dead nomatter what Neo does, why does bane matter in any way-shape-form ?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think that the Sentinels intended to let Bane live; we know for sure that Smith is not an agent of the Machines anymore, and seeing his new ability infect, I have a hunch he may have disabled the Sentinels the same way Neo did. You also have an added fact that a part of Neo is with him as well.
Either that, or he simply triggered the EMP (assuming it was him), and then quickly hid. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Once again, check the<a href='http://www.geocities.com/clark_kent0002/index.htm' target='_blank'>transcript between the Architect and Neo</a> for more information.
It stands to reason that Smith would format the brain to be as efficient as possible, seeing as how that's what the machines are after. So maybe in his partial format, smith made Neo's brain close to 100% efficient. Unlocking superhuman powers hidden deep within our psyche if you believe in that sort of stuff (which I do to a small extent).
Well, I can't exactly speculate all of that. IF, and that's a big if, that scenario did play out, I'd say that neither Neo or the French guy were EVER human. But at the same time I want to make sure you know that if that plays out, I don't think that the machines as we know them created neo or the french guy either.
I will restate that the wachowski brothers have suprised me and turned every theory I ever had about either movie on it's head. So I wouldn't put a lot of faith into my ideas on this one either <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
but i think i remember in the movie them actually saying that the merovingian (french guy) IS a program, he is nt human, he is a "manager" higher end program, he is above the agents in status, in fact all of his minions were older versions of agents which he kept for the heck of it. if you listen close, ghosts were the agents who kept humanity scared and in line in the earlier time periods, and the french guy just kept those two for keepsakes
Now I'm all upset... I'm going to go have a beer and settle down.
i dont like the idea of the reality being a second matrix. its stupid and cheezy. its just like us thinking maybe our galaxy is just an atom that forms dog **** for some greater being. or like lisa in the simpsons when she has that whole little city to herself. to explain all that in the next movie would be real hard and it would rip the story to... uh... badness.
anyways, ill read the rest of this thread tomorrow and post some good points. that one i really had to get off my chest.
He could easily be a human engineered by the machines. Everyone in the Matrix is essentially a test-tube baby anyway. Genetic or bionic manipulation doesn't seem at all out of the question.
No, I meant that she is the most important person to Neo. With all decimal numbers, the numbers closest to the decimal point have the most sway over whether it is rounded up or down. Since Neo chose the left door because of Trinity, I am assuming that she is the first decimal place, and Morpheus is the second decimal place because he was the one who got Trinity and Neo together. If all numbers 5 and over get rounded up, you can assume that all of the inhabitants of Zion who believed in the prophecy to be numbers between 5 and 9, whereas the non-believers, Commander Lock and others like him are numbers lower than 5.
And the french guy is a program, he was never human. French guy, his goons, Persephone, the twins, the oracle, her guard, and the key maker are all exile programs, one's who've been marked for deletion/replacement but have chosen to stay in the matrix. So you have to keep in mind there are two forces at work in the Matrix now the exile programs and the programs still working for matrix itself aka Agents, Sentinels, Architect. Which group wants what is the interesting part.
The exile programs probably wouldn't want Neo to reach the source and reset the Matrix because that would mean they would no longer exist, the only exception to this is the Oracle because she knew Neo would try to save Trinity.
As for Neo having powers in the real world there are three possibilites I can think of. One he has finally convinced himself that he is all powerful even outside the matrix and defied all laws of nature. Two since Neo and Smith share a connection and Smith now exists in the real world Neo was able to use some Smithesq powers to stop the sents. Three reality is just another layer of the matrix (please god no)
the only three explanations are that there is a second matrix or neo is maaaagic or that there was a nearby ship that emped them simultaneously.
two of which suck and the third is a cop-out too.
now perhaps the entire movie after the architect scene was a simulation... of a possibility in neos mind?and then they could reset to the architect scene and continue the movie in a SANE fashion.