<!--QuoteBegin--dr.d+May 18 2003, 09:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ May 18 2003, 09:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So basically all the freedom fighters are downloaded into the matrix that's where Neo having code in him comes from, it's not because he's engineered. Besides he's an anamoly why would the matrix willing create an anaomly to threaten it's own existence. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The architect spoke of two things that contradict what you're saying, though:
1) He said that the anomaly (The One) was a term necessary to balance the equation. Without the anomaly, the rest of the Matrix simply can't work, at least in its current design (as laid out by the Oracle). It's a necessary part of everything.
2) It was very strongly suggested that Neo contains some special piece of code that needs to rejoin the Source. Only the One carries this code; not any joe schmoe freedom fighter can fulfill that function.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the only three explanations are that there is a second matrix or neo is maaaagic or that there was a nearby ship that emped them simultaneously.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> OR of course there is the fourth (and best) explanation, already made by me... <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok, heres the real explanation for the sentinel breakdown at the end (ok, actually its just more speculation) Neo does have a cellphone implanted in his head, I mean, think about it, Neo was created by the machines, because he is necessary (I think we have that part covered ), they put it in in order to make sure he became the one, all those errors had to go somewhere, they made sure they go to him, because they would have hundreds of thousands of "ones" if they didn't, remember that Neo wasn't "born" he was harvested, brought up in a test tube, they put something in him that collected all the errors and gave him a connection to the machines, the coma was probably a failsafe, as he would have been something of a problem if he was allowed to use this power unchecked. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1) He said that the anomaly (The One) was a term necessary to balance the equation. Without the anomaly, the rest of the Matrix simply can't work, at least in its current design (as laid out by the Oracle). It's a necessary part of everything.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Neo is the 'remainder' of the equation...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2) It was very strongly suggested that Neo contains some special piece of code that needs to rejoin the Source. Only the One carries this code; not any joe schmoe freedom fighter can fulfill that function.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The way i see it is the architect/machines needs neo to be reloaded into the matrix so they can fix what they have screwed up. Neo is like a bug report or feedback for the programmer aka the architect. Swish!
The entire 1% of humanity that rejects the matrix are Anamolies, "the one" is just the 1% of the 1%, and each time the Matrix is reloaded there are less anamolies. Hence Neo being the remainder of an equation that equation being choice, the first matrix was perfect but human's free will completely destroyed it. With each reload of the Matrix there is less and less of the unbalanced equation, meaning less and less choice, until finally a matrix is created where fate is programmed ultimately and people have no choice.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The way I think that whole linkup thing works is like such: Neo is a creation of the machines... and he has interfaced with the source. (Remember, he had to make a connection through the doorway as it vanished) The way I see it, this left a sort of residual connection in his mind, a connection that was open to all the machines. He could only sense the signals closest to him, as his mind couldn't possibly pick up on the communications aboveground. The stopping of the sentinels was probably no more than a modifed version of your standard packet-swarm DoS attack, overloading the sentinels' minds, but shorting his out from the strain at the same time. - Red Wizard<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is what I beleive and is probally the best answer. So far, there has been numerous sources that say there will not be a matrix within a matrix. Just look at any of the animatrix history lessons. Is it so hard to beleive? If a human can be jacked into the matrix and totally be enveloped in it, then why can a program not just hack into a human mind(which they actually do in the first movie). In order for the entire idea of the matrix to work, the machines must have figured out how to essentaily commuicate with the human brain as if it is a computer.
What I think happeded with the sentinals is that Neo is now kinda part machine..at least in the mind. I beleive he is a permanant transmitter/receiver. I think that by the next movie he wont need the plug to hack into the matrix anymore...I think he will be able to do it just with some focus. He simple "hacked" into the sentinals and did a simple Denial of Service attack..blocking their carrier signals from the matrix. If this is true, and he developes this power more...and teaches others how to use it...the human race will be saved for sure.
Second, about Agent smith and Bane/Cain(biblical Reference in credits). I beleive that in the same sense that neo is part program, smith is now part human. He has hacked into bane's mind and taken it over..in essense, became totally human. I also beleive that it will be Smith...not Neo that will ultimately...indirectly save the human race.
Smith wants to kill everyone..the human race, and the matrix. And he is a virus. He will keep duplicating until his mission is done. This is after a while, going to make the matrix unstable. And if the agents dont stop Smith, the matrix will eventually fail.
Thats pretty much what I was getting at before. Smith is gaining unbelievable power inside the Matrix. Not only does he already have a small army of himself, but I think the most signifcant power, one we're neglecting, is that he now has the ability to open the backdoors and travel across the Matrix freely. With this I think Smith is going to take over the Matrix. Yes the agents could try to stop him, but assuming they don't know how to hack people like he does, they can't duplicate themselves, so Smith is going to take control.
Now as I said before, but nobody commented, I think the counselor has something to do with Smith. In the water scene he distinctly says "Still just human." Now correct me if I'm wrong but the ONLY person that has said that is Smith (or agents in general).
As for Neo. Well I don't know about the anomaly, or creation, but one thing is for certain, the Matrix wanted him there. The Agents could have easily taken his body over effectively screwing over the human race from their saviour. They could have taken him over when he was taking the pill and killed Morpheus and every other person in the room. They didn't. The Matrix WANTED Neo to become The One. Now for the purpose, well that was pretty much the whole point of Reloaded, what is Neo's true purpose.
Smith seems like a rouge in my veiw, he probably still wants to kill Neo.. yet also probably needs him to live considering Neo "set him free". Smith has also never helped the matrix in this movie, he even killed one of the agents in order to multiply himself a little more.
Soo I'm thinking Smith wants Neo dead.. but also needs him to live? Maybe Neo also has a part of Smith in him, like Smith has a part of Neo, and he was able to still be a part of the matrix even though he's out of it?
Maybe being in the matrix unlocked a part of his mind so now he has psychic powers? I suppose we'll all have to wait till the next one to find out <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->.
Ok, here is my opinion on this discussion so far...
Based on the conversation with the archetect, ZIon is the real world. When Neo stiopped the sentinels it was becuase e was connected to them. He and Smith were changed a little. Freeing Smith and maybe giving Neo the ability to hack the Sentinels.
I think having a double matrix thing with Zion being fake totaly bad. The W. bros. are better writers than that. That ending would be a little lame.
Here is my opinion on Smith taking over Bane's mind: In the 1st movie, fighting and piloting techniques were uploaded into the people's minds. I think Smith uploaed his program into Bane's head and it over-rided his brain. If it controlled his body in the matrix, what's to stop it from controlling him outside of the matrix.---Just thought up another reason for no double matrix: if Zion was part of the matrix, how come Bane didn't look like Smith in Zion.---
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In the 1st movie, fighting and piloting techniques were uploaded into the people's minds. I think Smith uploaed his program into Bane's head and it over-rided his brain. If it controlled his body in the matrix, what's to stop it from controlling him outside of the matrix<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--dr.d+May 19 2003, 08:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ May 19 2003, 08:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There was nothing to hit, I don't think anyone was arguing that bane = smith were they?? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> no, I think there was an argument that said if bane was either brainwashed by smith or is in actuality, smith himself, which is what I believe
Alright, I've been reading quite a bit about this movie, including entire forums devoted to it.
First, I want to start off by bringing up that in many ways "The Matrix" is an alagory to the Bible. The first matrix being Eden, then the downfall of man being the second matrix and the more realistic things that we know today. Neo being a character depicting many things like Jesus, being a saviour and dying and coming back to life. Trinity, representing the unity of God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. The Nebacanezzar (spelling...), being a character from the Bible. So, I'd just like to introduce this, making the point that Reloaded and Revolutions probably follows suit and includes many stories from the Bible, so possibly we can make some other connections, and possibly it might help explain somethings.
I'd like to note, that the scene with the Architect could <i>definetly</i> be considered similar to the temptation of Jesus Christ. This could be construed as the Architect lying to Neo, trying to influence him to make the wrong decision.
Also, I'd like to bring up some evidence against a Matrix within a Matrix. <ul> <li>Agent Smith wanted to escape out of the Matrix, in Reloaded, he copies himself, Bane, being one of the victims might represent him "escaping" <li>The agent's needed the key to Zion, if they knew and could foresee the destruction of Zion again they would have probably created a backdoor into Zion <li>No reason to have to search for the "One" and coax him into doing something, they could simply just kill him from the real world since he's still plugged in there, but not in the first matrix and reboot anyways. <li>Agents can possess other people within the Matrix taking over their body, but not in the real world, Smith had to do it through the Matrix </ul>
Reasons for a Matrix within a Matrix <ul> <li>Neo's ability, there could be some other reason, however, I think it's an inherent drawn conclusion <li>Obvious safety measures for the machines </ul>
Also, Bane has definetly been influenced by Smith. Most likely rewritten his brain, because if you remember, when Tank was uploading Martial Arts into Neo's brain it was realised in the "<i>real world</i>". If you can add memory, don't you think you could remove it to ? Or erase it and start over ?
And, regarding the other programs, they are rogue, remember they are AI. Now that means they most likely include humans traits, such as greed and selfishness and the desire to survive, just like many of the program characters in the movie, the french dude and Agent Smith. Smith desires revenge, a human trait, and the french guy desires wealth, another human trait. Now, im not saying they're human, but since they we're "dropped" from the system because of the fact that they're obsolete they we're freed, now, that's very similar to the resistance being freed from the matrix. Now, since they're released, they have hidden within the system, to live out their ambitions.
Reasons for AI having human traits <ul> <li>Creation of the Matrix and the 'Farms', the machines we're searching for a way to 'survive' <li>Agent Smith, noted in the first, that he hated being in the Matrix, however, until he was released by the system, he was unable to resist <li>French man's lust for women <li>Agent Smith's desire for revenge <li>Compassion; the french man saved some obsolete programs from being deleted </ul>
And lastly, for you're enjoyment, I have found and attached the Architect Scene Dialogue that I found off another forum.
id like to note that although the matrix has a lot of biblical references, it also has a lot of other religious references, there is a certain buddist existentialism, and also the greek god of sleep "Morpheus" and the greek mythological muse "penelope"
and im sure the name merovingian means <i>something</i>!
Umm there are whole theories written on the religious aspects of the matrix, not only does it include references to the obvious christan belifes, it referes to Buhddism, Khabalism, Hinduism, and Gnosticism.
Persephone was the wife of Odysseus. Uh.. she didn't really do all that much, just whine for him to return from the Trojan War during The Odyssey. As for biblical stuff, I think you're right with all that. And if thats right, with Neo being Jesus, then Neo is going to be "crucified" eventually, in order to save either the Matrix or the people of Zion, or a mixture of both possibly. Its never really explained what happens to the people that are being farmed once the matrix is reloaded. Do they realize something happened thus forcing the machines to kill them? Or do all the goo babies start over with a clean slate? If the machines are a reference to the demons of Hell, then its Neo's job to spread his word and save the people. He's going to die to either make the people wake up from the Matrix before the machines kill them all, or uh.. something else... Edit
To Dr. D:
I don't think anyone was arguing it, I think you just explained it correctly.
BTW, if you don't think the CG looks that great. Look closer, you know that scene where Morpheous cuts the SUV the twins are in with a Katana? Yeah, that SUV is all CG. I just watched some behind the scenes footage of Laurence Fishbourne (Morpheus) doing that scene, he made all the motions but there was no SUV.
Also, when he shoots the pistol at the SUV when it flips. The SUV is CG again.
I for one, was completly fooled <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ok, JUST found this, but be warned it has some MAJOR POTENTIAL SPOILERS for Revolutions!!!!!
<a href='http://forums.matrixfans.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7161' target='_blank'>http://forums.matrixfans.net/showthread.ph...=&threadid=7161</a> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"The Oracle (played by an actress named Mary Alice, due to Gloria Foster's death; I assume this means that Mary Alice will play the Oracle in Revolutions, as well) states that a "special child" who will "change the world" is the child of two programs similar to herself. If she means Neo, this would suggest that Neo is a program and thus that Zion is still part of the Matrix. The Oracle says the two programs betrayed her for their love by giving Merovingian (the French information-collector guy, played by Lambert Wilson) her termination key. The Oracle allowed this because she wanted the programs to have their special child. A hobo with longish blond hair who also appears in the Revolutions trailer has a conversation with Niobe (Jada Pinket-Smith) in which he reveals that the Zion before this one "only lasted 72 hours". Niobe volunteered to be the second ship to enter the Matrix and contact the Nebuchadnezzar because her boyfriend, Command Lock revealed to her that he had arranged for her ship, the Logos, to be the only one not to participate in the defense of Zion, in order to protect her, and she was angry. At the end of the events of Reloaded, Niobi and Ghost's hovercraft (Logos) has crashed in an uncharted underground area and they do not know how they will be found and rescued".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is supposedly the story you get after playing through Enter the Matrix (*sigh* I still wish I could return the damn thing, 45 bucks down the drain, anyone want it for 35? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ).
<!--QuoteBegin--OttoDestruct+May 19 2003, 06:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (OttoDestruct @ May 19 2003, 06:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Persephone was the wife of Odysseus. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Nope, Persephone was the daughter of Demeter. She's the reason for the division between the seasons - when she is in the underworld with her husband Hades, Demeter punishes the earth with winter. When she returns home, Demeter blesses the earth with spring. (Pomegranate seeds figure into the equation, but I won't explain how.)
So Persephone is the unwilling bride of Hades, bound to stay in the underworld (at least part of the year). And Persephone in the movie didn't seem like she was all that happy with her hubby the Merovingian. Any parallels beyond that?
<!--QuoteBegin--Sirus+May 19 2003, 09:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sirus @ May 19 2003, 09:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> First, I want to start off by bringing up that in many ways "The Matrix" is an alagory to the Bible. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> In that case, it could be assumed that the number 314 (the amount of seconds Neo had to get into the source) is some kind of bible reference, such as Job 3:14, which was mentioned in Mission Impossible. <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> with kings and counselors of the earth who rebuilt ruins for themselves, or with princes who had gold, who filled their houses with silver. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It may be pertinant to the topic, but im too lazy at the moment to make any connections.
in the first one smith goes 'all humans are viruses' as he has gone and classified humans, [i.e mammals, reptiles, etc] and come up with viruses
but note that he is a virus himself in 2nd one
= a touch of humanity
and i wasted over an hour reading this thread. well, not really wasted, but i would have preferred to make my website, which ive been putting off for months, and was going to do tonight. sigh.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
Just saw it again yesterday, Bane is listed as Bane in the credits, don't know what you guys are on but I wan't some. Also, I'm the only one in my town outside of movie personnel that has seen the revolutions trailor (after 6 hours of credits), I AM THE ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111oneoneoneoneone
Anybody notice the color of the candy the Oracle was eating on the bench in Reloaded? It was red... the same color as the pill Neo took in the first Matrix to symbolize the truth. The oracle also said she loves candy as she put it in her mouth meaning she loves the truth?
Comments
The oracle perhaps?
--Scythe--
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The architect spoke of two things that contradict what you're saying, though:
1) He said that the anomaly (The One) was a term necessary to balance the equation. Without the anomaly, the rest of the Matrix simply can't work, at least in its current design (as laid out by the Oracle). It's a necessary part of everything.
2) It was very strongly suggested that Neo contains some special piece of code that needs to rejoin the Source. Only the One carries this code; not any joe schmoe freedom fighter can fulfill that function.
OR of course there is the fourth (and best) explanation, already made by me...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok, heres the real explanation for the sentinel breakdown at the end (ok, actually its just more speculation) Neo does have a cellphone implanted in his head, I mean, think about it, Neo was created by the machines, because he is necessary (I think we have that part covered ), they put it in in order to make sure he became the one, all those errors had to go somewhere, they made sure they go to him, because they would have hundreds of thousands of "ones" if they didn't, remember that Neo wasn't "born" he was harvested, brought up in a test tube, they put something in him that collected all the errors and gave him a connection to the machines, the coma was probably a failsafe, as he would have been something of a problem if he was allowed to use this power unchecked. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Neo is the 'remainder' of the equation...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2) It was very strongly suggested that Neo contains some special piece of code that needs to rejoin the Source. Only the One carries this code; not any joe schmoe freedom fighter can fulfill that function.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The way i see it is the architect/machines needs neo to be reloaded into the matrix so they can fix what they have screwed up. Neo is like a bug report or feedback for the programmer aka the architect. Swish!
This is what I beleive and is probally the best answer. So far, there has been numerous sources that say there will not be a matrix within a matrix. Just look at any of the animatrix history lessons. Is it so hard to beleive? If a human can be jacked into the matrix and totally be enveloped in it, then why can a program not just hack into a human mind(which they actually do in the first movie). In order for the entire idea of the matrix to work, the machines must have figured out how to essentaily commuicate with the human brain as if it is a computer.
What I think happeded with the sentinals is that Neo is now kinda part machine..at least in the mind. I beleive he is a permanant transmitter/receiver. I think that by the next movie he wont need the plug to hack into the matrix anymore...I think he will be able to do it just with some focus. He simple "hacked" into the sentinals and did a simple Denial of Service attack..blocking their carrier signals from the matrix. If this is true, and he developes this power more...and teaches others how to use it...the human race will be saved for sure.
Second, about Agent smith and Bane/Cain(biblical Reference in credits). I beleive that in the same sense that neo is part program, smith is now part human. He has hacked into bane's mind and taken it over..in essense, became totally human. I also beleive that it will be Smith...not Neo that will ultimately...indirectly save the human race.
Smith wants to kill everyone..the human race, and the matrix. And he is a virus. He will keep duplicating until his mission is done. This is after a while, going to make the matrix unstable. And if the agents dont stop Smith, the matrix will eventually fail.
Thats pretty much what I was getting at before. Smith is gaining unbelievable power inside the Matrix. Not only does he already have a small army of himself, but I think the most signifcant power, one we're neglecting, is that he now has the ability to open the backdoors and travel across the Matrix freely. With this I think Smith is going to take over the Matrix. Yes the agents could try to stop him, but assuming they don't know how to hack people like he does, they can't duplicate themselves, so Smith is going to take control.
Now as I said before, but nobody commented, I think the counselor has something to do with Smith. In the water scene he distinctly says "Still just human." Now correct me if I'm wrong but the ONLY person that has said that is Smith (or agents in general).
As for Neo. Well I don't know about the anomaly, or creation, but one thing is for certain, the Matrix wanted him there. The Agents could have easily taken his body over effectively screwing over the human race from their saviour. They could have taken him over when he was taking the pill and killed Morpheus and every other person in the room. They didn't. The Matrix WANTED Neo to become The One. Now for the purpose, well that was pretty much the whole point of Reloaded, what is Neo's true purpose.
Soo I'm thinking Smith wants Neo dead.. but also needs him to live? Maybe Neo also has a part of Smith in him, like Smith has a part of Neo, and he was able to still be a part of the matrix even though he's out of it?
Maybe being in the matrix unlocked a part of his mind so now he has psychic powers? I suppose we'll all have to wait till the next one to find out <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->.
Based on the conversation with the archetect, ZIon is the real world. When Neo stiopped the sentinels it was becuase e was connected to them. He and Smith were changed a little. Freeing Smith and maybe giving Neo the ability to hack the Sentinels.
I think having a double matrix thing with Zion being fake totaly bad. The W. bros. are better writers than that. That ending would be a little lame.
Here is my opinion on Smith taking over Bane's mind: In the 1st movie, fighting and piloting techniques were uploaded into the people's minds. I think Smith uploaed his program into Bane's head and it over-rided his brain. If it controlled his body in the matrix, what's to stop it from controlling him outside of the matrix.---Just thought up another reason for no double matrix: if Zion was part of the matrix, how come Bane didn't look like Smith in Zion.---
I think you just hit that one on the head.
no, I think there was an argument that said if bane was either brainwashed by smith or is in actuality, smith himself, which is what I believe
Neo said = "...it felt like dying."
First, I want to start off by bringing up that in many ways "The Matrix" is an alagory to the Bible.
The first matrix being Eden, then the downfall of man being the second matrix and the more realistic things that we know today. Neo being a character depicting many things like Jesus, being a saviour and dying and coming back to life. Trinity, representing the unity of God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. The Nebacanezzar (spelling...), being a character from the Bible. So, I'd just like to introduce this, making the point that Reloaded and Revolutions probably follows suit and includes many stories from the Bible, so possibly we can make some other connections, and possibly it might help explain somethings.
I'd like to note, that the scene with the Architect could <i>definetly</i> be considered similar to the temptation of Jesus Christ. This could be construed as the Architect lying to Neo, trying to influence him to make the wrong decision.
Also, I'd like to bring up some evidence against a Matrix within a Matrix.
<ul>
<li>Agent Smith wanted to escape out of the Matrix, in Reloaded, he copies himself, Bane, being one of the victims might represent him "escaping"
<li>The agent's needed the key to Zion, if they knew and could foresee the destruction of Zion again they would have probably created a backdoor into Zion
<li>No reason to have to search for the "One" and coax him into doing something, they could simply just kill him from the real world since he's still plugged in there, but not in the first matrix and reboot anyways.
<li>Agents can possess other people within the Matrix taking over their body, but not in the real world, Smith had to do it through the Matrix
</ul>
Reasons for a Matrix within a Matrix
<ul>
<li>Neo's ability, there could be some other reason, however, I think it's an inherent drawn conclusion
<li>Obvious safety measures for the machines
</ul>
Also, Bane has definetly been influenced by Smith. Most likely rewritten his brain, because if you remember, when Tank was uploading Martial Arts into Neo's brain it was realised in the "<i>real world</i>". If you can add memory, don't you think you could remove it to ? Or erase it and start over ?
And, regarding the other programs, they are rogue, remember they are AI. Now that means they most likely include humans traits, such as greed and selfishness and the desire to survive, just like many of the program characters in the movie, the french dude and Agent Smith. Smith desires revenge, a human trait, and the french guy desires wealth, another human trait. Now, im not saying they're human, but since they we're "dropped" from the system because of the fact that they're obsolete they we're freed, now, that's very similar to the resistance being freed from the matrix. Now, since they're released, they have hidden within the system, to live out their ambitions.
Reasons for AI having human traits
<ul>
<li>Creation of the Matrix and the 'Farms', the machines we're searching for a way to 'survive'
<li>Agent Smith, noted in the first, that he hated being in the Matrix, however, until he was released by the system, he was unable to resist
<li>French man's lust for women
<li>Agent Smith's desire for revenge
<li>Compassion; the french man saved some obsolete programs from being deleted
</ul>
And lastly, for you're enjoyment, I have found and attached the Architect Scene Dialogue that I found off another forum.
and im sure the name merovingian means <i>something</i>!
They're might be some buddhist alagory, although, I honestly think it's more unlikely.
Morpheus was probably just chosen because it sounds so omnious...
And !
The Merovingians ruled the two Frankish kingdoms of Neustria and Austrasia, the kernel of what would later become France.
It's apparently just from French history.
<a href='http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/rl_cmp/new_phil_main.html' target='_blank'>http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/rl_c..._phil_main.html</a>
I was under the impression everyone in this thread read that already. guess not.
Edit: and its Persophone not Penelope
oops.
Edit
To Dr. D:
I don't think anyone was arguing it, I think you just explained it correctly.
Also, when he shoots the pistol at the SUV when it flips. The SUV is CG again.
I for one, was completly fooled <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://forums.matrixfans.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7161' target='_blank'>http://forums.matrixfans.net/showthread.ph...=&threadid=7161</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"The Oracle (played by an actress named Mary Alice, due to Gloria Foster's death; I assume this means that Mary Alice will play the Oracle in Revolutions, as well) states that a "special child" who will "change the world" is the child of two programs similar to herself. If she means Neo, this would suggest that Neo is a program and thus that Zion is still part of the Matrix. The Oracle says the two programs betrayed her for their love by giving Merovingian (the French information-collector guy, played by Lambert Wilson) her termination key. The Oracle allowed this because she wanted the programs to have their special child.
A hobo with longish blond hair who also appears in the Revolutions trailer has a conversation with Niobe (Jada Pinket-Smith) in which he reveals that the Zion before this one "only lasted 72 hours". Niobe volunteered to be the second ship to enter the Matrix and contact the Nebuchadnezzar because her boyfriend, Command Lock revealed to her that he had arranged for her ship, the Logos, to be the only one not to participate in the defense of Zion, in order to protect her, and she was angry. At the end of the events of Reloaded, Niobi and Ghost's hovercraft (Logos) has crashed in an uncharted underground area and they do not know how they will be found and rescued".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is supposedly the story you get after playing through Enter the Matrix (*sigh* I still wish I could return the damn thing, 45 bucks down the drain, anyone want it for 35? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ).
<a href='http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm</a>
Nope, Persephone was the daughter of Demeter. She's the reason for the division between the seasons - when she is in the underworld with her husband Hades, Demeter punishes the earth with winter. When she returns home, Demeter blesses the earth with spring. (Pomegranate seeds figure into the equation, but I won't explain how.)
So Persephone is the unwilling bride of Hades, bound to stay in the underworld (at least part of the year). And Persephone in the movie didn't seem like she was all that happy with her hubby the Merovingian. Any parallels beyond that?
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
In that case, it could be assumed that the number 314 (the amount of seconds Neo had to get into the source) is some kind of bible reference, such as Job 3:14, which was mentioned in Mission Impossible. <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> with kings and counselors of the earth who rebuilt ruins for themselves, or with princes who had gold, who filled their houses with silver. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It may be pertinant to the topic, but im too lazy at the moment to make any connections.
but note that he is a virus himself in 2nd one
= a touch of humanity
and i wasted over an hour reading this thread. well, not really wasted, but i would have preferred to make my website, which ive been putting off for months, and was going to do tonight. sigh.