blah. blah!!!!! the worst part is when people say that maybe there is a second matrix. thats the worst. man.... i cant get over the worstness of that situation. honestly, read the threat. and the worst part is where people say that maybe theres really a SECOND matrix! unbelievable.
<!--QuoteBegin--BOZO+May 31 2003, 03:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BOZO @ May 31 2003, 03:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Really wild theroy here: What if the Matrix wasn't built by the machines? Supose there was really a war between humans and the machines and the humans ultmitly prevailed but left with nothing but a peice of crap world that they destoyied. So they built the Matix so they could go back to being happy again, the machines are there just to keep it running. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Excellent twist!</span>
Even wilder theory, howabout if Neo <b>IS</b> the Matrix. He is actually the computer that runs everything, and Zion is part of that. That would be more of a Zen idea, that the whole film has been following.
<a href='http://ter.air0day.com/index.php?script=matrixreloaded' target='_blank'>THE MATRIX RELOADED: THE ABRIDGED SCRIPT™</a> By Rod Hilton FADE IN: EXT. DARK, NOIR-ESQUE CITY STREET A computer model of CARRIE-ANNE MOSS with an inhuman-looking face flies out of a window, shoots at an agent, and is killed. INT. THE NEBUCHADNEZZAR - BLUE KEANU REEVES wakes up from his nightmare. CARRIE-ANNE MOSS, played by a human being, is laying next to him. KEANU REEVES Whoa. CARRIE-ANNE MOSS What's the matter? Did you wet the bed again? KEANU REEVES I had this dream. You flew out of a window in slow-motion and shot at an agent and he killed you. CARRIE-ANNE MOSS Well of course you dreamed that - you've gone online and watched the Matrix Reloaded trailer like fifty times in the past two days. KEANU REEVES Did you see the computer generated me fight all those Agent Smiths? It was awesome! I'm gonna go hack in and watch it again now. INT. DARK, NOIR-ESQUE SEWER LAURENCE FISHBURNE, CARRIE-ANNE MOSS, and KEANU REEVES join #SewerChat with all the other rebels. LAURENCE FISHBURNE Gimme ops! I want ops! JADA PINKETT SMITH Shut up. Listen everyone. The Osiris has sent a transmission - the machines are drilling straight down to Zion. It's a wonder they didn't think to do this sooner. LAURENCE FISHBURNE Ops! Ops! Ops! JADA PINKETT SMITH Fine! Jesus. * SexyJada69 sets mode: +o TheOneBeliever. LAURENCE FISHBURNE Woohoo! * SexyJada69 was kicked by TheOneBeliever (Don't hog ops!) * Joins: SexyJada69 JADA PINKETT SMITH Not funny. LAURENCE FISHBURNE Sorry. Okay, everyone. I believe the Gloria Foster will contact us soon, so I need one ship to stay back here and be available if she makes contact. This goes directly against the order of our military commander, but he's a total ****, so **** him. * SexyJada69 has quit (irc.logos.net irc.thematrix.com) * -[Ghost]- has quit (irc.logos.net irc.thematrix.com) * StokChar02 has quit (irc.rebels.net irc.thematrix.com) * StokChar01 has quit (irc.rebels.net irc.thematrix.com) * TheOne has quit (irc.nebuchadnezzar.net irc.thematrix.com) * Trin303 has quit (irc.nebuchadnezzar.net irc.thematrix.com) LAURENCE FISHBURNE Oh ****. * Joins: -[Ghost]- * Joins: StokChar02 * Joins: TheOne * Joins: AgentJohnson * Joins: Trin303 * Joins: StokChar01 * Joins: AgentJackson * Joins: SexyJada69 * irc.thematrix.com sets mode: +o AgentJohnson * irc.thematrix.com sets mode: +o AgentJackson * AgentJackson sets mode: -o TheOneBeliever * AgentJohnson changes topic to 'Th3 M4tr1x h4s j00 h4h4!!1!' JADA PINKETT SMITH Agents! Get the hell out of here! * Parts: SexyJada69 * Parts: StokChar01 * Parts: StokChar02 * Parts: Trin303 * Parts: TheOneBeliever * Parts: -[Ghost]- KEANU REEVES I don't feel the slightest bit intimidated, and as a result the audience feels absolutely no danger. AGENT JACKSON That's a shame, since this is the first fight scene and should really get them hyperventilating. They use kung fu and KEANU beats the crap out of the AGENTS and flies away. INT. ZION All of the ships head to ZION. Nothing happens for a while. Characters talk to other characters. Eventually, there is an erotic rave scene, but it too is somewhat boring. The AUDIENCE goes to sleep. AUDIENCE This is what they're fighting to save? It sucks! Wake me when they're back in the matrix. Eventually, GLORIA FOSTER contacts KEANU, and they visit her. EXT. WELL-LIT, NON-NOIR PARK KEANU sits down next to GLORIA FOSTER after fighting SING NGAI for no good reason. GLORIA FOSTER Hello Keanu. My dialogue this time around isn't anywhere near as well written as the last time we talked, so let me get to the chase. I'm a program, all of your decisions have already been made, Trinity is going to die, and you need to find Randall Duk Kim. Gotta run! KEANU REEVES Got it. Hey, have you seen that spoon-bending kid from before? There haven't been any cool quotable phrases in this movie and I think he could help. GLORA shakes her head and leaves. HUGO WEAVING Mr. Anderson. KEANU REEVES That's good, but it really came from the first movie. Got anything else? Suddenly, a bunch of other HUGO WEAVINGS show up. They FIGHT to VIDEO GAME MUSIC. Despite all of the enormous hype, it is extremely clear when the scene switches into CGI-mode. HUGO WEAVING Why are you using kung fu? Can't you jump inside us and delete us like in the last movie? Isn't that one of your super awesome powers? KEANU REEVES Nah, the only real new power I have is flight. HUGO WEAVING That sucks. KEANU REEVES Not as badly as my appearance when I do my little mid-air spin move with this pole. He fights and fights and fights and eventually gives up and flies away. INT. WELL-LIT, NON-NOIR RESTAURANT LAURENCE, CARRIE-ANNE, and KEANU enter the restaurant and talk to LAMBERT WILSON. LAURENCE FISHBURNE We want Randall Duk Kim. I am totally dead serious here, as I always am. LAMBERT WILSON I won't give him to you, but you can use my girlfriend, Monica Belluci to go behind my back and get him. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go have some matrix sex. MONICA BELLUCI Grrr, I get so mad when he cheats on me. To spite him, I will give you Randall. KEANU REEVES Wait, you're a program right? So some machine actually specifically programmed you and gave you the ability to be jealous, conniving, and spiteful? MONICA BELLUCI Not only that, but they made me a hornball. I will only help if you make out with me. LAURENCE FISHBURNE What? It's bad enough that the agents no longer pose any threat at all, but now these are the kind of obstacles we must overcome to save Zion? Make out with Monica Belluci? What will we have to do next, eat our way through a prison wall made of chocolate? MONICA helps them and they escape with RANDALL DUK KIM in a car. LAURENCE FISHBURNE Hurry, we have to get Randall out of here! CARRIE-ANNE MOSS And take him where, exactly? LAURENCE FISHBURNE Uhhhh.. away from the bad guys? It doesn't matter, we're just waiting for Neo to save us. CARRIE-ANNE MOSS Don't you realize that without any real goal, this scene is utterly without tension, regardless of how cool it is, stylistically? LAURENCE FISHBURNE This is a matrix film, there's no point to anything other than style. They are CHASED by TWO ALBINO RASTAFARIANS. More video game music plays in the background. ALBINO RASTAFARIAN #1 We are utterly pointless. ALBINO RASTAFARIAN #2 Yes we are. Eventually, KEANU REEVES saves them all and takes them to a secret hideout. INT. DARK, NOIR-ESQUE CONFERENCE ROOM LAURENCE, KEANU, CARRIE-ANNE, JADA, and VARIOUS OTHER REBELS meet with RANDALL DUK KIM. RANDALL DUK KIM To save your world, you must strike at exactly midnight.. it will require a complicated three-pronged attack... AUDIENCE Holy ****, we're at the climax of the film! I haven't seen anything from this in the trailer - it must be freaking amazing, especially since it has to top the burly brawl and the car chase. We see a montage of shots from the important mission while RANDALL and THE REBELS discuss the plan in voiceover. Once the discussion is over, the problem is solved. KEANU enters a ROOM OF LIGHT. INT. WELL-LIT, NON-NOIR WHITE ROOM KEANU enters a white room, the walls of which are covered in monitors. A chair spins around to reveal THE EXPLAINER. KEANU REEVES Who are you? THE EXPLAINER I am The Explainer. I designed the matrix screenplay. Unable to decently explain the convoluted plot well, I have resorted to putting myself here in the final act and having you ask all of the questions the audience wants to ask. (dramatic pause) You must begin by asking your own questions then gradually switch to asking those of the audience, in order to not make this scene any more awkward than it already is. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also the most irrelevant. KEANU REEVES What was the Osiris? And who was that kid in zion who kept pestering me? THE EXPLAINER You will find the answers to these questions by purchasing The Animatrix, a collection of nine animated shorts from some of Anime's top directors. KEANU REEVES Alright. Well, what was that crap Glora said about vampires and werewolves? And how did Jada Pinkett Smith get to Laurence Fishburne during the car chase? And what the hell happened during the power plant takeover climax that-wasn't? THE EXPLAINER You will find the answers to those questions by purchasing the Enter The Matrix game, available for Windows, Playstation2, Xbox, and Gamecube. Enter the Matrix features awesome gunplay and spectacular martial arts that bend the rules of the Matrix. This game isn't just set in the Matrix universe--it's an integral part of the experience, with a story that weaves in and out of The Matrix Reloaded. Enter the Matrix is the story behind the story. KEANU REEVES Fine! Then tell me this, what the hell is with Hugo Weaving saying he and I have some special connection? And how come I can control machines in the real world? And will we win the war if I don't choose the door to my right? THE EXPLAINER You will find the answers to these questions when you watch The Matrix Revolutions, coming later in 2003. KEANU REEVES I hate you. THE EXPLAINER Perhaps you should drink more Powerade. KEANU REEVES Just answer me one question. We're not going to find out that the real world is in another matrix, are we? THE EXPLAINER Christ I hope not. KEANU leaves and flies to save CARRIE-ANNE MOSS from being shot. She is SHOT anyway. Then KEANU reaches into her matrix code and pulls out the bullet in a comical fashion. CARRIE-ANNE MOSS That was preposterous. KEANU REEVES Wait till you see what I do outside of the ship. END
Copyright 2003 Rod Hilton. All Rights Reserved. This document may be reproduced verbatim (allowing censorship and translation) as long as the author's name is preserved and this notice is either preserved or referenced.
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
edited June 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--Brave Ulysses+Jun 1 2003, 10:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Brave Ulysses @ Jun 1 2003, 10:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--BOZO+May 31 2003, 03:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BOZO @ May 31 2003, 03:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Really wild theroy here: What if the Matrix wasn't built by the machines? Supose there was really a war between humans and the machines and the humans ultmitly prevailed but left with nothing but a peice of crap world that they destoyied. So they built the Matix so they could go back to being happy again, the machines are there just to keep it running. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Excellent twist!</span> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Go watch the Animatrix. The Second Renaissance gives a clear picture of the world before the Matrix and the creation of the Matrix. Nifty idea, though.
BTW, the fake script rocks <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
ok, they say all the ships were destroyed, but captain soron of the vigilant is out hunting for morpheus aswell. not just captain Nyobi... so that adds another posibility to the next movie and why neo fell to the ground. maybe the vigilant was around.
Bain wants to volenteer to go find new and morpheus too! he doesnt want to stay and sabatauge the counter-attack. is he afraid or does he want to tell them something? i dont know. i just want to get those two points out.
captain Soron of vigilant and ain wants to volenteer.
How about this to bake your noodles? You know how we all live in the matrix right? And the matrix basically represents a computer program? Well that would explain the obvious CG-looking agent smith vs neo fight! The Matrix has probably never had to deal with such intense entities & information at such a high polygon level before. Plus with a virus mixed in too. So it ends up with serious framerate drops (the slow motion sequences) and a cut in resolution, making the characters' facial textures look not as hi-res as before <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The real world is the second matrix? I doubt it. Neo is himself a program? Maybe, but not necessarily. That's not to say that Neo can't (or hasn't) been programmed. It depends on how you define life, but to me humans are just "wetware", and I think The Matrix Reloaded is saying that too. We're organic hardware; with the right interface we can be reprogrammed too.
Why shouldn't Neo be able to do funky stuff in the real world? After all, what did he actually do? He didn't move like a blur, he didn't dodge bullets, he didn't fly. He caused an EMP field which knocked out two machines. It's possible that the EMP generator was nearby and he merely told it to activate. Judging from his (and his body's) reaction, he obviously wasn't doing it consciously. He tried to do what he does in the matrix, and the requisite code to interface with any nearby machines to carry out his bidding was executed.
As for Neo making the decision not to save humanity... I don't think he realised this at the time, but he made the right decision. Yes, his action killed everyone in the matrix. But had he not done that, the cycle would have just continued. It was the right thing to kill all of the people trapped in the matrix, and doom Zion as well, because should the cycle continue there'd be no way for humanity to ever be free. If they must be free by dying and starting again, Noah - style, so be it.
Why should be Oracle be helping the humans? She merely predicts the future. But it raises an interesting question about fate and the future - can it be predicted?
If you know everything, <i>absolutely everything</i> about a particular moment in time, you can predict anything that happens after that (let's assume you can do the calculations fast enough). That includes choice; all life and free will is are chemical and electrical impulses. However, fate doesn't exist because while if reality were to be "rewound" and a person makes a decision in the same situation as before they will make the same decision, anything trying to predict the future exists within the world it is trying to predict. While our actions are predetermined, they are predetermined by us. There is no chance or free will, but for all intents and purposes there are because there is no external observer.
The second problem, one which affects current computer simulations of the real world, is the butterfly effect. Because there is no absolute unit of measurement, there is no way you can quantify anything to infinite precision. The tiniest error in precision will have a greater and greater effect the more calculations you do. If you were to graph the predicted results against the expected results, they would appear to be the same, but then get further and further apart until finaly they are completely and utterly different.
But what if you do not exist within the world, as such? And what if instead of trying to make a prediction based on ONE instance of time, your data is constantly, constantly updated? And what if you are making predictions about a world which DOES have fixed precision (the matrix). It's a simulation of reality; the dimensions of the objects in the matrix are all exact to a certain degree of precision.
So they can be predicted. Except for the problem of choice. Choice has to be there so that the humans will accept the simulation. The problem is that this choice is made by human brains in the real world, whose chemicals and electrical impulses are NOT stored values to a fixed degree of precision. Therefore if you try to predict them you can only do so to a certain degree of precision and within a certain time frame, due to the butterfly effect. The behaviour of the humans in the matrix can be predicted to a high degree of accuracy, because there's nothing the matrix (and therefore the oracle) doesn't know about them. The problem is that it doesn't know all that stuff about them to infinite precision. That's why the machines had to have the whole reloading the matrix business. It's also why they failed to predict Neo's reaction.
I finally waded through all fifteen pages (I didn't, last post) and several times I had to suppress the urge to bang my head against the table. I went back to wade through all fifteen pages because I saw it again last night, for the second time, and I was looking for an explanation to something else I thought of (which hasn't been covered). So nyah. There were also few things brought up which made me go *guhg*.
<b>"There must be a second matrix, because Neo was able to do funky stuff in the real world"</b> The second matrix idea is only one possible explanation. I noticed when I saw it again last night that when Neo stops the sentinels in the real world, they do not hit an invisible wall like the bullets do when Neo stops them in the matrix. Nor are they stopped by any apparent EMP blast. They all stop advancing and begin to malfunction simultaneously. Someone else suggested this, but I believe it's most likely that Neo interfaced with the sentinels (probably through subconscious mechanisms, as if flexing a muscle. You know, how you can do stuff without realising or thinking about exactly how you do it) and shut them down\caused them to stuff up and crash.
<b>"Who is Bane?"</b> He is now a "copy" of Smith. There is no question. We see him being taken over through his avatar and then exiting the matrix. End of story. Humans can be overwritten or edited just like computers can.
<b>The Architect's explanation</b> By the way, the screens do not show the previous Ones, as my sister pointed out after the movie. There were more than six. They were possible reactions, possibly reactions which Neo was thinking of making.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The butterfly effect. The remainders are literally the difference between the predicted value and the actual value, due to the finite precision of the matrix and the infinite precision of the real world. Choice (user input <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->) is the only thing which cannot be predicted to absolute accuracy, because it is generated in the real world which is in infinite precision. The One is the embodiment of the innacuracy.
By the way, "the butterfly effect" is the concept (which ties in somewhere with chaos theory) that a butterfly flapping its wings on one side of the world could influence weather patterns to an extent that, after long enough, the flapping of the wings will produce storms on the other side of the world. It's the concept that in two predictions based on one piece of data, if the data is ever so veeeeeeery slightly different in one prediction the results over time will at first be very similar, but grow increasingly disparate until they are COMPLETELY different from each other. When applied to reality, the prediciton with the correct data is real life and the second prediction is any simulation which attempts to mimic reality in order to predict it - the data in the prediction must be taken to a finite degree of precision whereas the real world has no ultimate unit of measurement. This difference, no matter how subtle, creates the butterly effect.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Precisely, as you are undoubtedly gathering the anomaly is systemic. Creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Once again, the butterfly effect. The slightest innacuracy in the data, over time, produces results which are utterly and totally different from the real results.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->While this answered function it was obviously fundamentally flawed thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo those that refuse the program while a minority if unchecked would constitute an <b>escalating probability</b> of disaster.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> To quote the Oracle, "but you already know what I'm going to tell you." This is a description of the butterfly effect. The error becomes greater and greater over time, due to the original discrepency in the data.
Neo represents the error term. The result of choice. He is the accumulated error in predicting the choices of the users of the matrix, and so if he is assimilated back into the matrix the error is resolved, for the time being. The error will then continue to accumulate until another One is generated.
Generated? Maybe not. The resistence, everyone whose mind has been freed, are the minority which have rejected the matrix. This is because the matrix incorrectly predicted their actions enough times for the inconsistencies they observed in their lives to be significant. The One is the person who felt <i>most</i> wrong. Morpheus said it in the first movie: "You've felt it your entire life; that there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there. Like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad." That's common to anyone who's mind is able to be freed.
If the One is reinserted and assimilated, the predicted model of the decisions made by the users will match their actual predictions. Maybe this is by resetting the matrix using the new informatin, maybe this means the matrix actually just keeps ticking away; it doesn't matter. "The cataclysmic system failiure" caused by NOT resetting the predicted values to their real ones is that the results will become chaotic - they will differ more and more from the predicted outcome until they no longer match at all. This means that the Matrix will be unable to predict what the users are thinking, and will no longer be able to accurately simulate a world to match their expectations. This means that more and more and more things which don't quite fit will happen. More people will feel that there is something wrong with the world, and to an increasing extent. Ultimately, everyone will reject the matrix, with the same result as the first two matricies - they will die. Or they will wake up and be killed by waiting sentinels; it doesn't matter.
Neo is a special case because the inconsistency is strongest for him. Remember that, as the oracle said, he did NOT start out as the One. "You've got the gift, but it looks like you're waiting for something." "For what?" "Your next life, maybe. Who knows?" Having his avatar killed and realising the seperation between the real world and the avatar due to Trinity expressing her love for him in the real world was what made Neo fully able to comprehend that the matrix is a simulation. Nobody else was able to <i>fully</i> comprehend it. Neo was on the verge of becoming the One, and the death of his avatar clinched it.
There is a difference between understanding something academically, and actually comprehending it. Morpheus, Trinity etc. are able to perform super-human feats in the Matrix because they <i>understand</i> that it is a simulation, but they do not fully comprehend it. Think about it - why was Morpheus able to tell Neo that the agents were beatable because they were limited and humans are not, yet Morpheus himself was unable to beat agents? He understands, but he does not fully comprehend.
So maybe Smith is the machine equivalent? Think about this: all the "people" in the matrix are are avatars. They're the same as Diablo or Everquest or MUD characters. So are agents inside the matrix, or are they computer generated avatars? If I were to write a bot for a MUD, and the bot were to connect to this MUD and start playing, a (very primitive) AI would be playing the MUD just like a human player, but would not be inside the MUD. It would be running on my machine. There is a difference between the MUD bot which I write and which connects to the MUD and the AI monsters which are part of the MUD which the players hunt and kill for exp and loot. Now think about the matrix: who says that agents are <i>part</i> of the matrix? They are AI programs, but maybe they are connected to the matrix as users in a similar manner as humans. Agents are forum admins and not swear filters, so to speak <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->.
So that means that agents can understand that the world they interface with has no limits which can't be circumvented. But can they comprehend it? Ordinarily no. But Smith does. Think back to the first movie - he was never a typical agent. When he was interrogating Morpheus he took his earpiece out and said "I hate this place, this zoo, this prison" - he has an independent opinion! Also, when interrogating Neo at the start of the movie, "my colleagues believe I am wasting my time with you" - he had a difference of opinion, even though he was supposedly making a decision based on the same data as the others in the same decision making process. Smith has always been slightly different (and more so than his peers), but how much so? The same as Neo. He was on the verge of fully comprehending that the Matrix is just a simulation, and has rules to be circumvented. In Neo's case, these rules were the rules of physics. In Smith's case, these rules were the rules of authority. He was already p'd off at having to work in the Matrix. So when Neo destroyed his avatar, instead of deleting himself (or moving himself to the recycle bin <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->) he rebelled against the system and remained intact and functional. He realised that the rules of authority only bind him as long as he deliberately adheres to them, and he clearly hated his role. So now that he realises that the rules of authority are arbitrary, he is free to break them.
Whew. Uh, the thing which I wanted to know which hadn't been covered in the discussion was "why exactly did Neo have to be reinserted", which I kinda worked out while I was typing this. But I'm still not sure of why he was given the choice of whether or not to reinsert himself, or why there was not even more effort to ensure that he did reinsert himself. Why rely on his decision, with the possibility of irrational human behavious to cloud his judgement?
Comments
the worst part is when people say that maybe there is a second matrix. thats the worst. man.... i cant get over the worstness of that situation. honestly, read the threat.
and the worst part is where people say that maybe theres really a SECOND matrix! unbelievable.
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Excellent twist!</span>
By Rod Hilton
FADE IN:
EXT. DARK, NOIR-ESQUE CITY STREET
A computer model of CARRIE-ANNE MOSS with an inhuman-looking face flies out of a window, shoots at an agent, and is killed.
INT. THE NEBUCHADNEZZAR - BLUE
KEANU REEVES wakes up from his nightmare. CARRIE-ANNE MOSS, played by a human being, is laying next to him.
KEANU REEVES
Whoa.
CARRIE-ANNE MOSS
What's the matter? Did you wet the
bed again?
KEANU REEVES
I had this dream. You flew out of
a window in slow-motion and shot at
an agent and he killed you.
CARRIE-ANNE MOSS
Well of course you dreamed that -
you've gone online and watched the
Matrix Reloaded trailer like fifty
times in the past two days.
KEANU REEVES
Did you see the computer generated
me fight all those Agent Smiths? It
was awesome! I'm gonna go hack in
and watch it again now.
INT. DARK, NOIR-ESQUE SEWER
LAURENCE FISHBURNE, CARRIE-ANNE MOSS, and KEANU REEVES join #SewerChat with all the other rebels.
LAURENCE FISHBURNE
Gimme ops! I want ops!
JADA PINKETT SMITH
Shut up. Listen everyone. The
Osiris has sent a transmission - the
machines are drilling straight down
to Zion. It's a wonder they didn't
think to do this sooner.
LAURENCE FISHBURNE
Ops! Ops! Ops!
JADA PINKETT SMITH
Fine! Jesus.
* SexyJada69 sets mode: +o TheOneBeliever.
LAURENCE FISHBURNE
Woohoo!
* SexyJada69 was kicked by TheOneBeliever (Don't hog ops!)
* Joins: SexyJada69
JADA PINKETT SMITH
Not funny.
LAURENCE FISHBURNE
Sorry. Okay, everyone. I believe
the Gloria Foster will contact us
soon, so I need one ship to stay
back here and be available if she
makes contact. This goes directly
against the order of our military
commander, but he's a total ****, so
**** him.
* SexyJada69 has quit (irc.logos.net irc.thematrix.com)
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LAURENCE FISHBURNE
Oh ****.
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h4h4!!1!'
JADA PINKETT SMITH
Agents! Get the hell out of here!
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KEANU REEVES
I don't feel the slightest bit
intimidated, and as a result the
audience feels absolutely no danger.
AGENT JACKSON
That's a shame, since this is the
first fight scene and should really
get them hyperventilating.
They use kung fu and KEANU beats the crap out of the AGENTS and flies away.
INT. ZION
All of the ships head to ZION. Nothing happens for a while. Characters talk to other characters. Eventually, there is an erotic rave scene, but it too is somewhat boring. The AUDIENCE goes to sleep.
AUDIENCE
This is what they're fighting to
save? It sucks! Wake me when they're
back in the matrix.
Eventually, GLORIA FOSTER contacts KEANU, and they visit her.
EXT. WELL-LIT, NON-NOIR PARK
KEANU sits down next to GLORIA FOSTER after fighting SING NGAI for no good reason.
GLORIA FOSTER
Hello Keanu. My dialogue this time
around isn't anywhere near as well
written as the last time we talked,
so let me get to the chase. I'm a
program, all of your decisions have
already been made, Trinity is going
to die, and you need to find Randall
Duk Kim. Gotta run!
KEANU REEVES
Got it. Hey, have you seen that
spoon-bending kid from before? There
haven't been any cool quotable
phrases in this movie and I think he
could help.
GLORA shakes her head and leaves.
HUGO WEAVING
Mr. Anderson.
KEANU REEVES
That's good, but it really came
from the first movie. Got anything
else?
Suddenly, a bunch of other HUGO WEAVINGS show up. They FIGHT to VIDEO GAME MUSIC. Despite all of the enormous hype, it is extremely clear when the scene switches into CGI-mode.
HUGO WEAVING
Why are you using kung fu? Can't
you jump inside us and delete us
like in the last movie? Isn't that
one of your super awesome powers?
KEANU REEVES
Nah, the only real new power I have
is flight.
HUGO WEAVING
That sucks.
KEANU REEVES
Not as badly as my appearance when
I do my little mid-air spin move
with this pole.
He fights and fights and fights and eventually gives up and flies away.
INT. WELL-LIT, NON-NOIR RESTAURANT
LAURENCE, CARRIE-ANNE, and KEANU enter the restaurant and talk to LAMBERT WILSON.
LAURENCE FISHBURNE
We want Randall Duk Kim. I am
totally dead serious here, as I
always am.
LAMBERT WILSON
I won't give him to you, but you
can use my girlfriend, Monica
Belluci to go behind my back and get
him. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm
going to go have some matrix sex.
MONICA BELLUCI
Grrr, I get so mad when he cheats
on me. To spite him, I will give
you Randall.
KEANU REEVES
Wait, you're a program right? So
some machine actually specifically
programmed you and gave you the
ability to be jealous, conniving,
and spiteful?
MONICA BELLUCI
Not only that, but they made me a
hornball. I will only help if you
make out with me.
LAURENCE FISHBURNE
What? It's bad enough that the
agents no longer pose any threat at
all, but now these are the kind of
obstacles we must overcome to save
Zion? Make out with Monica Belluci?
What will we have to do next, eat
our way through a prison wall made
of chocolate?
MONICA helps them and they escape with RANDALL DUK KIM in a car.
LAURENCE FISHBURNE
Hurry, we have to get Randall out
of here!
CARRIE-ANNE MOSS
And take him where, exactly?
LAURENCE FISHBURNE
Uhhhh.. away from the bad guys? It
doesn't matter, we're just waiting
for Neo to save us.
CARRIE-ANNE MOSS
Don't you realize that without any
real goal, this scene is utterly
without tension, regardless of how
cool it is, stylistically?
LAURENCE FISHBURNE
This is a matrix film, there's no
point to anything other than style.
They are CHASED by TWO ALBINO RASTAFARIANS. More video game music plays in the background.
ALBINO RASTAFARIAN #1
We are utterly pointless.
ALBINO RASTAFARIAN #2
Yes we are.
Eventually, KEANU REEVES saves them all and takes them to a secret hideout.
INT. DARK, NOIR-ESQUE CONFERENCE ROOM
LAURENCE, KEANU, CARRIE-ANNE, JADA, and VARIOUS OTHER REBELS meet with RANDALL DUK KIM.
RANDALL DUK KIM
To save your world, you must strike
at exactly midnight.. it will
require a complicated three-pronged
attack...
AUDIENCE
Holy ****, we're at the climax of
the film! I haven't seen anything
from this in the trailer - it must
be freaking amazing, especially since
it has to top the burly brawl and
the car chase.
We see a montage of shots from the important mission while RANDALL and THE REBELS discuss the plan in voiceover. Once
the discussion is over, the problem is solved. KEANU enters a ROOM OF LIGHT.
INT. WELL-LIT, NON-NOIR WHITE ROOM
KEANU enters a white room, the walls of which are covered in monitors. A chair spins around to reveal THE EXPLAINER.
KEANU REEVES
Who are you?
THE EXPLAINER
I am The Explainer. I designed the
matrix screenplay. Unable to
decently explain the convoluted plot
well, I have resorted to putting
myself here in the final act and
having you ask all of the questions
the audience wants to ask.
(dramatic pause)
You must begin by asking your own
questions then gradually switch to
asking those of the audience, in
order to not make this scene any
more awkward than it already is.
Concordantly, while your first
question may be the most pertinent,
you may or may not realize it is
also the most irrelevant.
KEANU REEVES
What was the Osiris? And who was
that kid in zion who kept pestering
me?
THE EXPLAINER
You will find the answers to these
questions by purchasing The
Animatrix, a collection of nine
animated shorts from some of Anime's
top directors.
KEANU REEVES
Alright. Well, what was that crap
Glora said about vampires and
werewolves? And how did Jada Pinkett
Smith get to Laurence Fishburne
during the car chase? And what the
hell happened during the power plant
takeover climax that-wasn't?
THE EXPLAINER
You will find the answers to those
questions by purchasing the Enter
The Matrix game, available for
Windows, Playstation2, Xbox, and
Gamecube. Enter the Matrix features
awesome gunplay and spectacular
martial arts that bend the rules of
the Matrix. This game isn't just
set in the Matrix universe--it's an
integral part of the experience,
with a story that weaves in and out
of The Matrix Reloaded. Enter the
Matrix is the story behind the
story.
KEANU REEVES
Fine! Then tell me this, what the
hell is with Hugo Weaving saying he
and I have some special connection?
And how come I can control machines
in the real world? And will we win
the war if I don't choose the door
to my right?
THE EXPLAINER
You will find the answers to these
questions when you watch The Matrix
Revolutions, coming later in 2003.
KEANU REEVES
I hate you.
THE EXPLAINER
Perhaps you should drink more
Powerade.
KEANU REEVES
Just answer me one question. We're
not going to find out that the real
world is in another matrix, are we?
THE EXPLAINER
Christ I hope not.
KEANU leaves and flies to save CARRIE-ANNE MOSS from being shot. She is SHOT anyway. Then KEANU reaches into her matrix code and pulls out the bullet in a comical fashion.
CARRIE-ANNE MOSS
That was preposterous.
KEANU REEVES
Wait till you see what I do outside
of the ship.
END
Copyright 2003 Rod Hilton. All Rights Reserved. This document may be reproduced verbatim (allowing censorship and translation) as long as the author's name is preserved and this notice is either preserved or referenced.
i really cba to waste my time reading something i dont want to
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Excellent twist!</span> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Go watch the Animatrix. The Second Renaissance gives a clear picture of the world before the Matrix and the creation of the Matrix. Nifty idea, though.
BTW, the fake script rocks <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Bain wants to volenteer to go find new and morpheus too! he doesnt want to stay and sabatauge the counter-attack. is he afraid or does he want to tell them something? i dont know. i just want to get those two points out.
captain Soron of vigilant and ain wants to volenteer.
Why shouldn't Neo be able to do funky stuff in the real world? After all, what did he actually do? He didn't move like a blur, he didn't dodge bullets, he didn't fly. He caused an EMP field which knocked out two machines. It's possible that the EMP generator was nearby and he merely told it to activate. Judging from his (and his body's) reaction, he obviously wasn't doing it consciously. He tried to do what he does in the matrix, and the requisite code to interface with any nearby machines to carry out his bidding was executed.
As for Neo making the decision not to save humanity... I don't think he realised this at the time, but he made the right decision. Yes, his action killed everyone in the matrix. But had he not done that, the cycle would have just continued. It was the right thing to kill all of the people trapped in the matrix, and doom Zion as well, because should the cycle continue there'd be no way for humanity to ever be free. If they must be free by dying and starting again, Noah - style, so be it.
Why should be Oracle be helping the humans? She merely predicts the future. But it raises an interesting question about fate and the future - can it be predicted?
If you know everything, <i>absolutely everything</i> about a particular moment in time, you can predict anything that happens after that (let's assume you can do the calculations fast enough). That includes choice; all life and free will is are chemical and electrical impulses. However, fate doesn't exist because while if reality were to be "rewound" and a person makes a decision in the same situation as before they will make the same decision, anything trying to predict the future exists within the world it is trying to predict. While our actions are predetermined, they are predetermined by us. There is no chance or free will, but for all intents and purposes there are because there is no external observer.
The second problem, one which affects current computer simulations of the real world, is the butterfly effect. Because there is no absolute unit of measurement, there is no way you can quantify anything to infinite precision. The tiniest error in precision will have a greater and greater effect the more calculations you do. If you were to graph the predicted results against the expected results, they would appear to be the same, but then get further and further apart until finaly they are completely and utterly different.
But what if you do not exist within the world, as such? And what if instead of trying to make a prediction based on ONE instance of time, your data is constantly, constantly updated? And what if you are making predictions about a world which DOES have fixed precision (the matrix). It's a simulation of reality; the dimensions of the objects in the matrix are all exact to a certain degree of precision.
So they can be predicted. Except for the problem of choice. Choice has to be there so that the humans will accept the simulation. The problem is that this choice is made by human brains in the real world, whose chemicals and electrical impulses are NOT stored values to a fixed degree of precision. Therefore if you try to predict them you can only do so to a certain degree of precision and within a certain time frame, due to the butterfly effect. The behaviour of the humans in the matrix can be predicted to a high degree of accuracy, because there's nothing the matrix (and therefore the oracle) doesn't know about them. The problem is that it doesn't know all that stuff about them to infinite precision. That's why the machines had to have the whole reloading the matrix business. It's also why they failed to predict Neo's reaction.
/me turns around in his seat
I think we hit something!
I finally waded through all fifteen pages (I didn't, last post) and several times I had to suppress the urge to bang my head against the table. I went back to wade through all fifteen pages because I saw it again last night, for the second time, and I was looking for an explanation to something else I thought of (which hasn't been covered). So nyah. There were also few things brought up which made me go *guhg*.
<b>"There must be a second matrix, because Neo was able to do funky stuff in the real world"</b>
The second matrix idea is only one possible explanation. I noticed when I saw it again last night that when Neo stops the sentinels in the real world, they do not hit an invisible wall like the bullets do when Neo stops them in the matrix. Nor are they stopped by any apparent EMP blast. They all stop advancing and begin to malfunction simultaneously. Someone else suggested this, but I believe it's most likely that Neo interfaced with the sentinels (probably through subconscious mechanisms, as if flexing a muscle. You know, how you can do stuff without realising or thinking about exactly how you do it) and shut them down\caused them to stuff up and crash.
<b>"Who is Bane?"</b>
He is now a "copy" of Smith. There is no question. We see him being taken over through his avatar and then exiting the matrix. End of story. Humans can be overwritten or edited just like computers can.
<b>The Architect's explanation</b>
By the way, the screens do not show the previous Ones, as my sister pointed out after the movie. There were more than six. They were possible reactions, possibly reactions which Neo was thinking of making.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The butterfly effect. The remainders are literally the difference between the predicted value and the actual value, due to the finite precision of the matrix and the infinite precision of the real world. Choice (user input <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->) is the only thing which cannot be predicted to absolute accuracy, because it is generated in the real world which is in infinite precision. The One is the embodiment of the innacuracy.
By the way, "the butterfly effect" is the concept (which ties in somewhere with chaos theory) that a butterfly flapping its wings on one side of the world could influence weather patterns to an extent that, after long enough, the flapping of the wings will produce storms on the other side of the world. It's the concept that in two predictions based on one piece of data, if the data is ever so veeeeeeery slightly different in one prediction the results over time will at first be very similar, but grow increasingly disparate until they are COMPLETELY different from each other. When applied to reality, the prediciton with the correct data is real life and the second prediction is any simulation which attempts to mimic reality in order to predict it - the data in the prediction must be taken to a finite degree of precision whereas the real world has no ultimate unit of measurement. This difference, no matter how subtle, creates the butterly effect.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Precisely, as you are undoubtedly gathering the anomaly is systemic. Creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Once again, the butterfly effect. The slightest innacuracy in the data, over time, produces results which are utterly and totally different from the real results.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->While this answered function it was obviously fundamentally flawed thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo those that refuse the program while a minority if unchecked would constitute an <b>escalating probability</b> of disaster.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To quote the Oracle, "but you already know what I'm going to tell you." This is a description of the butterfly effect. The error becomes greater and greater over time, due to the original discrepency in the data.
Neo represents the error term. The result of choice. He is the accumulated error in predicting the choices of the users of the matrix, and so if he is assimilated back into the matrix the error is resolved, for the time being. The error will then continue to accumulate until another One is generated.
Generated? Maybe not. The resistence, everyone whose mind has been freed, are the minority which have rejected the matrix. This is because the matrix incorrectly predicted their actions enough times for the inconsistencies they observed in their lives to be significant. The One is the person who felt <i>most</i> wrong. Morpheus said it in the first movie: "You've felt it your entire life; that there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there. Like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad." That's common to anyone who's mind is able to be freed.
If the One is reinserted and assimilated, the predicted model of the decisions made by the users will match their actual predictions. Maybe this is by resetting the matrix using the new informatin, maybe this means the matrix actually just keeps ticking away; it doesn't matter. "The cataclysmic system failiure" caused by NOT resetting the predicted values to their real ones is that the results will become chaotic - they will differ more and more from the predicted outcome until they no longer match at all. This means that the Matrix will be unable to predict what the users are thinking, and will no longer be able to accurately simulate a world to match their expectations. This means that more and more and more things which don't quite fit will happen. More people will feel that there is something wrong with the world, and to an increasing extent. Ultimately, everyone will reject the matrix, with the same result as the first two matricies - they will die. Or they will wake up and be killed by waiting sentinels; it doesn't matter.
Neo is a special case because the inconsistency is strongest for him. Remember that, as the oracle said, he did NOT start out as the One. "You've got the gift, but it looks like you're waiting for something." "For what?" "Your next life, maybe. Who knows?" Having his avatar killed and realising the seperation between the real world and the avatar due to Trinity expressing her love for him in the real world was what made Neo fully able to comprehend that the matrix is a simulation. Nobody else was able to <i>fully</i> comprehend it. Neo was on the verge of becoming the One, and the death of his avatar clinched it.
There is a difference between understanding something academically, and actually comprehending it. Morpheus, Trinity etc. are able to perform super-human feats in the Matrix because they <i>understand</i> that it is a simulation, but they do not fully comprehend it. Think about it - why was Morpheus able to tell Neo that the agents were beatable because they were limited and humans are not, yet Morpheus himself was unable to beat agents? He understands, but he does not fully comprehend.
So maybe Smith is the machine equivalent? Think about this: all the "people" in the matrix are are avatars. They're the same as Diablo or Everquest or MUD characters. So are agents inside the matrix, or are they computer generated avatars? If I were to write a bot for a MUD, and the bot were to connect to this MUD and start playing, a (very primitive) AI would be playing the MUD just like a human player, but would not be inside the MUD. It would be running on my machine. There is a difference between the MUD bot which I write and which connects to the MUD and the AI monsters which are part of the MUD which the players hunt and kill for exp and loot. Now think about the matrix: who says that agents are <i>part</i> of the matrix? They are AI programs, but maybe they are connected to the matrix as users in a similar manner as humans. Agents are forum admins and not swear filters, so to speak <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->.
So that means that agents can understand that the world they interface with has no limits which can't be circumvented. But can they comprehend it? Ordinarily no. But Smith does. Think back to the first movie - he was never a typical agent. When he was interrogating Morpheus he took his earpiece out and said "I hate this place, this zoo, this prison" - he has an independent opinion! Also, when interrogating Neo at the start of the movie, "my colleagues believe I am wasting my time with you" - he had a difference of opinion, even though he was supposedly making a decision based on the same data as the others in the same decision making process. Smith has always been slightly different (and more so than his peers), but how much so? The same as Neo. He was on the verge of fully comprehending that the Matrix is just a simulation, and has rules to be circumvented. In Neo's case, these rules were the rules of physics. In Smith's case, these rules were the rules of authority. He was already p'd off at having to work in the Matrix. So when Neo destroyed his avatar, instead of deleting himself (or moving himself to the recycle bin <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->) he rebelled against the system and remained intact and functional. He realised that the rules of authority only bind him as long as he deliberately adheres to them, and he clearly hated his role. So now that he realises that the rules of authority are arbitrary, he is free to break them.
Whew. Uh, the thing which I wanted to know which hadn't been covered in the discussion was "why exactly did Neo have to be reinserted", which I kinda worked out while I was typing this. But I'm still not sure of why he was given the choice of whether or not to reinsert himself, or why there was not even more effort to ensure that he did reinsert himself. Why rely on his decision, with the possibility of irrational human behavious to cloud his judgement?